Looking for a 4Tec

[kastevenson]

Hey all,
I've posted in the 2 stroke forum of my (new to me) DI and its woes. I'm not trying to pour money into that thing since I don't have a lot in it to begin with.

I had a dealer friend tell me to look for a low hour mid 2000's, non super charged 4-tec as they're pretty bullet-proof compared to the DI that I've got. I found a local ski on Craigslist that caught my eye: 2002 GTX Limited with 61 hours. Owner says it just had the oil/filter changed, coolant flushed, and new wear ring installed. For a couple grand more, I found a 2012 GTI SE 155 with 71 hours. I'm not concerned with the new or cool factor, I mainly want something reliable (after my short DI experience) but if the 2012 is worth the extra coin, I don't mind spending a little more to have something that'll last.

I've read that the 02-03's had wear ring/jet pump issues. Is this a huge issue that I need to stay away from?

I'm all ears. Thanks!

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

I'd go with the newr one just because of wear and tear. Esp if they used it in salt. My 04 gtx was used in salt, and all the 10mm bolts holding the body together fell apart trying to take them off. Time does take a toll on these things.

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

I bought my 2011 GTI LTD 155 with 80 hrs.

I just turned 200 hrs this past season. Oil changes and a new battery and everything else is perfect.

I would get the newer one.

 

[ski-d00]

The only model with pump issues was the 03 supercharged 185 model. It was fixed in 04. All 155 models are fine with the plastic pump.

There is a huge benefit to the newer ski, the newer hull, the ibR, the brake, fly by wire, newer improved electronics, new systems, gauges, etc.

Unless your getting the 02 for less than $2k, I'd go with the newer ski.

 

[jammin777]

id go newer, the ibr is fantastic and worth the extra$$ imo. makes navigating around the docs easy plus being able to slow down quicker. i own a 2015 gti 130 and love it. i would never ride a sc model as it would ruin me
ignorance is bliss. lol.

 

[Coastiejoe]

All the 4-Tec engines From 2002 to mid 2006 used hollow exhaust valves that were filled with sodium. These are prone to failure. The fresh water non SC engines rarely fail by comparison, but they can fail as well. If one breaks it falls into the engine and cause serious engine damage. It can cost 3 grand to repair the engine at that point.

Pull the valve cover and look for a stamping on the valve if it is an 06 engine. 72 is the hollow valve and 75 is the solid core valve.

 

[ski-d00]

Prone to failure is a little harsh when referring to the valves, imo. For every 1 ski that has a failure, I can probably show you 100 that haven't failed. I believe it has more to do with maintenance, storage, and location than anything. If the valves rust, they can develop micro cracks due to the weakening of the metal. I've never seen a dropped valve where the stems weren't pretty rusty looking.

 

[mkov608]

Valve corrosion may be why the maintenance manual tells you to pull the injectors and spray Fogging oil into the ports when you winterize. Most people can't spell May Ten Ance. My '02s are still going strong!

 

[Coastiejoe]

Prone to failure is a little harsh when referring to the valves, imo. For every 1 ski that has a failure, I can probably show you 100 that haven't failed. I believe it has more to do with maintenance, storage, and location than anything. If the valves rust, they can develop micro cracks due to the weakening of the metal. I've never seen a dropped valve where the stems weren't pretty rusty looking.

It is a known TSB and it is BRP that states they may fail. As compared to solid core they are prone to fail.

Not so much in freshwater and non-supercharged applications. But they do and have.

I'm not saying don't buy it. Just giving information specific to his question. Replace the valves and all is good.

"Prone" may not have been the best word. "May" is probably a better word.

 

[kastevenson]

Thanks for the useful info everyone. I was leaning towards the 2012 as well for the sake of being newer and "less used" (if that makes sense). Just wanted to make sure that model wasn't one to stay away from for whatever reason. The IBR system sounds fantastic, never ridden one with it. I'm waiting to hear back if the 2012 is still availble... its been on CL for 2 months.

In the mean time, I found a 2005 Wake 155 in the area with 58 hours. From what I can tell, this is the GTX trim with the tow bar, correct? Any quams with this one? His asking price is 4800 w/trailer - right between the asking price of the 2002 and 2012.

 

[ski-d00]

That's fair, I'll give you "may" fail but even SeaDoo blames it on lack of proper maintenance. The solid valves fail as well, just not as much. I did an 08 last year with solid valves that broke one. Again, they were corroded and rusty so maintenance is king.

The 2005 wake is basically the same as the 2002 gtx with a few minor updates and the tow pole. The 2012 is a much improved model and would still go that way if the budget allowed.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

I'm partial to the rxp but the gtx is a good 3 seater. I think of i bought a 3 seater, I'd go with yama vx because of how fuel efficient and reliable they are.

 

[Coastiejoe]

GTX is like a Caddy where the RXT/P is more like a BMW. Both good skis. Just a HIGE difference in ride. I own one of each.

 

[kastevenson]

Another question as I look around.

What is considered good practice for mechanically checking out these ski's in the dead of winter? If the owner was inclined to a water test, I would go that route on the warmest day possible but if that wasn't an option, what is advised?

Compression test? crank and give it a few revs? What else?

Thanks - here's to learning.

 

[mkov608]

Mechanical Checks

Another question as I look around.

What is considered good practice for mechanically checking out these ski's in the dead of winter? If the owner was inclined to a water test, I would go that route on the warmest day possible but if that wasn't an option, what is advised?

Compression test? crank and give it a few revs? What else?

Thanks - here's to learning.

Exactly what mechanical checks do you intend to perform with your dead-of-winter water test? Follow the Sea-Doo manual, and you'll be fine. The manual doesn't refer to "winterizing" but to "Off Season Storage". If you can ride all year long that's great, but you'll still need to complete those annual maintenance items ... oil & filter change, R&R spark plugs, check your jet pump for water intrusion & wear-ring clearance etc.

 

[kastevenson]

Exactly what mechanical checks do you intend to perform with your dead-of-winter water test? Follow the Sea-Doo manual, and you'll be fine. The manual doesn't refer to "winterizing" but to "Off Season Storage". If you can ride all year long that's great, but you'll still need to complete those annual maintenance items ... oil & filter change, R&R spark plugs, check your jet pump for water intrusion & wear-ring clearance etc.

Not sure I'm following...

My question related to everything I should look at/check on a used ski that's for sale if I can't do an actual test drive on the water.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Compression, general appearance, oil condition, Antifreeze. Start it up and listen to the motor for about 30 seconds.

 

[mkov608]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Maintenance records are the first thing I would ask for, but most private sellers don't document anything or maintain maintenance records. The depth of an inspection will depend on the age of the ski, what the owner will let you take apart, and your experience and available tools. So, let assume you aren't going to take anything apart and you don't have any tools other than a flashlight.

Here's what I would check under those circumstances:

1. Put the ski on a hose and run it. It should idle smoothly without variation in RPM. RPM should be between 1800 and 2000. Keep the run time short <2-3 minutes.
2. Look for smoke inside the hull; you're looking for exhaust leaks. Look for excessive smoke in the exhaust. It's a 4 stroke, so any smoke from the exhaust should be minimal.
3. Check the condition of the coolant. Use a coolant tester and take a sample, you're looking for a 50/50 mixture. If the ratio of coolant to water is low, expect corrosion in the cooling system.
4. Check the oil. Look for foaming and general condition (light compared to dark/New/old oil).
5. Look for leaks coolant or oil in the hull. Oil in the hull can mean big problems; don't walk; run away!
6. With the key on the post, make sure the information center works; you should get two beeps. Press the set button 5 times and see if there are any faults stored in the ECU.

You're not new to the water craft world, so the rest would be similar to what you would inspect on your ski.

 

[kastevenson]

Sorry, I misunderstood. Maintenance records are the first thing I would ask for, but most private sellers don't document anything or maintain maintenance records. The depth of an inspection will depend on the age of the ski, what the owner will let you take apart, and your experience and available tools. So, let assume you aren't going to take anything apart and you don't have any tools other than a flashlight.

Here's what I would check under those circumstances:

1. Put the ski on a hose and run it. It should idle smoothly without variation in RPM. RPM should be between 1800 and 2000. Keep the run time short <2-3 minutes.
2. Look for smoke inside the hull; you're looking for exhaust leaks. Look for excessive smoke in the exhaust. It's a 4 stroke, so any smoke from the exhaust should be minimal.
3. Check the condition of the coolant. Use a coolant tester and take a sample, you're looking for a 50/50 mixture. If the ratio of coolant to water is low, expect corrosion in the cooling system.
4. Check the oil. Look for foaming and general condition (light compared to dark/New/old oil).
5. Look for leaks coolant or oil in the hull. Oil in the hull can mean big problems; don't walk; run away!
6. With the key on the post, make sure the information center works; you should get two beeps. Press the set button 5 times and see if there are any faults stored in the ECU.

You're not new to the water craft world, so the rest would be similar to what you would inspect on your ski.

No worries. Thank you for the detailed responses!

I'm going to look at the 2012 GTI SE 155 next Tuesday or the week after (its a few hours away and the owner is out of town a lot). Supposedly he has maintenance records and mentioned that the carbon seal ring has been replaced by the dealer. It has 75 hours. Its been flushed after every use and looks to be in immaculate shape from the pictures.

Update: Just heard back from the owner: carbon seal ring was replaced due to a tow rope being sucked into the intake grate which caused it to leak a little. Dealer did the work and checked everything else over and found no other damage. Dealer reported the wear ring has plenty of life remaining.

 

[kastevenson]

Got'em!

Well guys, I picked up the 2012 GTI yesterday. It's in really good condition, the previous owner was meticulous on maintenance and care - the inside of the hull and motor looks brand new. The only major imperfections I can see is a small amount of mildew spots on the white part of the seat. With a little elbow grease and cleaner that should come right off. She has 75 hours.

The one issue I have is the Road King trailer it came with is 6 inches too wide to fit in my storage shed doorway. So I've narrowed it down to 2 options: alter the front of the shed and build a wider door or use my current 2001 Triton trailer. I really like the Road King trailer with it's lower profile and it being newer (by 11 years). I kicked around building a cart to stay in the shed and offloading the ski to that after every ride. I haven't done this before but I imagine that's not the easiest process. I'm leaning towards the more time consuming alteration to the shed...Thoughts?

Oh and here's a picture of the new ride on the way home yesterday:

 

[Coastiejoe]

Let's see a pic of the shed. Maybe we can figure something out.

 

[kastevenson]

Let's see a pic of the shed. Maybe we can figure something out.

Here's my thoughts:


The right hand door would be used for standard entrance and the left door would stay latched until needed. The left window would go away and be replaced with current lap boards from below the window to match what is there. Add paint to make it all match.

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

I am assuming that you are doing the work, including making new doors to fit the new width. Otherwise, it might end up costing more than the trailer.

#1. Can you make a new entrance from either side, or the back?

#2. Just cut out an additional 6" on each side below the windows. Since you have to remake the doors anyway, you can make a Dutch door to cover the 72" bottom and leave the top alone (hinged, of course)

 

[kastevenson]

I am assuming that you are doing the work, including making new doors to fit the new width. Otherwise, it might end up costing more than the trailer.

#1. Can you make a new entrance from either side, or the back?

#2. Just cut out an additional 6" on each side below the windows. Since you have to remake the doors anyway, you can make a Dutch door to cover the 72" bottom and leave the top alone (hinged, of course)

That's a neat idea - I'll have to look at how the studs fall inside. Yes, I'll be doing the work. The materials list isn't looking too bad and existing hardware could be re-used.

 

[DavesNotHereMan]

I am assuming that you are doing the work, including making new doors to fit the new width. Otherwise, it might end up costing more than the trailer.

#1. Can you make a new entrance from either side, or the back?

#2. Just cut out an additional 6" on each side below the windows. Since you have to remake the doors anyway, you can make a Dutch door to cover the 72" bottom and leave the top alone (hinged, of course)