Left engine filled with oil, REALLY BUMMED OUT

[Bassmanray]

I purchased a 1999 Chalenger this year and used it all summer without any problems. It was out of the water for about six weeks. I tried to start both engines before putting it back in the water but found that the right engine wouldn't even turn over. Took the plugs out and discovered that both cylinders were filled with oil. I have been told that it is the botom seal and that I should just get a rebuilt engine. They quoted me $2400 with a two year warranty. I guess my question is where to get a re built engine and what is reasonable to put it in. Also how big of a deal is it to re build it myself?

 

[Dr Honda]

yes... it's either the center crank seals... or the rotary valve seal. Generally... the fix is to replace the engine... but the price quoted is too much. I'm assuming this is Mosites or Pitt performance Watercraft?

The engine is about $1200 for a 2 year warranty. ($120 for shipping) So... the shop you've talked to is charging you $1K to do the install. If you are handy with tools... you can do it yourself over a weekend.


Now... before you get crazy with this.... an engine with failing seals can continue to run just fine. Either, start the engine every few days... or use a hose pinch... and pinch off the lines that feed the center gears.

 

[Bassmanray]

A friend of mine who has a few seadoo's said to eliminate the oil pump all together and mix the gas and oil and it should be fine. His comment was that the boat ran fine before you took it out of the water so he doesn't think it's a seal. The fact that the cylinder fills with oil when it's just sitting leads him to believe that it is the oil pump. What's your take on that scenario? Oh it was Mosites!!

 

[Dr Honda]

the oil pump has nothing to do with the engine filling with oil. Your engine has a rotary valve, and it's drive gears get lubed via the oil in the oil tank. If you remove the oil pump... you still have to leave the tank in the hull... and partly filled with oil to lube the gears. The oil is coming from that side of the system. (not from the pump) Not to mention.. if you remove the oil pump... then you have to pre-mix 40 gal of fuel. (that's a pain in the ass)


Now.. Mosities does good work... but they aren't cheap. Who said the engine was full of oil? Mosities... Or did you find it? Also... was it cleared, and re-started yet?

 

[Bassmanray]

I initially discovered it and mosities confirmed it. They cleared it and did get it started it but when they let it sit over night it filled up again so I guess they and you are correct. I did find the SBT web site and obviously that is where they get the the motors. What is the difference between the standard and premium engine other than the warranty? Also how big of a deal is it to re build the motor? Sounds to me like my best bet is to just get the new motor and suck it up. B O A T (Break Out Another Thousand)

You have been extremely helpfull. At least now I know that I'm not getting ripped off.

Thanks

 

[Dr Honda]

Basically... for $200, you get an extra year of warranty.

If the engine is refilling overnight... that's not good. But it doesn't normally happen like that. Those seals slowly go out. Personally... I'd clear the engine, at take it out for a ride... and then see what happens after. Like I said... you can simply put a hose clamp (pinch) on the hoses going to the rotary valve, and save yourself a lot of $$$. Yes... it's a pain to clear the engine... but it's not impossible. Also... that engine may still have some life in it. it could run properly for the next few years like this.


No... it doesn't sound like they are trying to rip you off... but they are charging you A LOT for the installation. Realistically... they are charging you about $1300~$1400 for the installation. They are an SBT dealer, so they get engines cheaper than the public prices.


If you want a real "Second opinion"... I would be more than happy to take a look at it. (I'm in Harrison City, and my shop is in Latrobe)

 

[El Toro 33809]

Take Tony up on his offer. He knows his stuff and will treat you right.

 

[Bassmanray]

I would be happy to have you look at it. My office is in Jeannette so that works for me. The boat is still at Mosities they were going to winterize it. I'll tell them to forget it let you take a look at it and go from there. Get me your information amd I'll contact you.

Thanks again.

 

[Bassmanray]

I just talked to mosites to cancel the winterization and they said that they were just going to start on it and the other motor locked up as well. Now I'm REALLY bumed out. Sounds like I need to get this to you ASAP.

 

[Dr Honda]

I just got your PM. I'll take a look at it.

If you are in Jeannette... just bring it to my house. It's probably a 2 minute trip. And... if need be... I'll winterize it for you. (I'm much cheaper)

 

[Seadoobuddy]

GAD, how I wish I lived next to Tony and all of his toys and expert advice.

 

[Stevego]

I have the EXCAT same problem with mine! Worst case is mine has just been rebuilt and now the mechanic is avoiding my calls. I only put 5 hours on the engine since the rebuild. Let us know what you find so I know what to look for and fix on mine. If easy fix would rather do it myself than have the boat at shop for another 7 weeks.....
I was able to start it after I cleared it and it ran fine. Smoked like crazy for a bit but cleared once I got it WOT.

 

[Bassmanray]

I'll be on the road tomorrow. You can either call me or IM me. I'll bring the boat to work monday. IM me your address and we'll hook up. The guy from Mosities said to me " honestly I don't know what's wrong with it, now I don't think you need a new motor" well they still took my $195.00 to tell me nothing. Oh well.

 

[Dr Honda]

The guy from Mosities said to me " honestly I don't know what's wrong with it, now I don't think you need a new motor" well they still took my $195.00 to tell me nothing. Oh well.

Who knows what they did. The problem is... they are a typical dealer. I think they charge $120/hr for "Boat Time", and most mechanics do what they do... because they can't hack it in a real school. I'm not bashing on anyone... but it's the truth.

I'll pm my address, and a time later today. But, I'm thinking... as long as I don't have anything big come in... We can hook up anytime in the morning, and go from there. I may even be free on Sunday... but the weather is supposed to suck, so it will be hard to look at it, outside.

 

[Bassmanray]

My monday is pretty clear. I won't have access to a computer till Sunday afternoon we'll talk then.

Thanks,

Ray

 

[Bassmanray]

Monday

Tony,

I'm thinking 9:30, I'll stop on my way to work. I'll GPS you and call if I get lost. See you then.

Ray

 

[Stevego]

Did you get this sorted out? I finally got a hold of my mechanic and he seems to think it is my oil pump stuck open. He is picking up the boat today to change the oil pump. Is it possible for an oil pump to get stuck open? Or is he just BS'ing me to make more money off me?

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... he brought the boat to my house... and sure enough... the RV seal was bad. I winterized it, and we are going to fix it in the spring.


As far as your problem being the oil pump... I find that highly doubtful. There are check valves in the injection hoses... so the oil wont' just flow into the engine. The pump has to make pressure to open the valves.

Since you have a new engine with this problem... Either....

1) the seal(s) are(were) bad from the factory... before they were installed.
2) The person doing the rebuild nicked them
3) The person doing the rebuild didn't seal the case properly.
4) The person doing the rebuild crushed the seals
5) The person doing the rebuild didn't grease the seal lips, and they burnt out before the 2-stroke lube had time to soak in.

6) If that shop did the rebuild... and it wasn't from someone like SBT... then they may have gotten lazy with the rebuild, and reused your old crank. (That's a very dishonest thing to do)