Impeller wear ring pics -- would this cause loss of acceleration?

[CAVPILOT]

Hey all, got a couple questions here for the collective group...I was out riding my ski's this past weekend and after about 1 hour, this particular ski stopped revving past 3000 RPM's and would NOT go any faster than 10-20 mph. It ran like a "raped ape" for that 1 hour (and has been all season) until then. :willy_nilly: About 4 weeks ago I replaced the pump housing (to which I received much help with right here, thank you again) and now it is leaking water into the hull ; not a lot, but it is leaking. :banghead:
Questions are:
1. Would this gap cause the impeller to cavitate and stop producing thrust?
2. mis-alignment of the pump housing due to the newly installed pump support wouldn't have caused this chunk to be missing, would it?

 

[soccerdan90]

Usually a bad wear ring will cause the ski to go slow with the rpms staying high. Just because the wear ring is bad doesnt cause the motor to rev lower. There is probably something else happening.

 

[Dr Honda]

The impeller and wear ring aren't in great shape... but as above... you would still have very high RPMs. If you aren't getting above 3000 rpm's... something is wrong with the engine.

 

[CAVPILOT]

yeah, I was afraid that would be the consensus because that fix is too easy!
Sooooo, I'm having the age old prob that several peeps have had and that is the ski runs fine out of water but in the water will not rev past 3K and has a hard time starting and then idling! I've looked all around the forum and I've noticed there are SEVERAL possibilities but the one thing I don't seem to have in common with anyone is mine has been flipped 4 times now. I've gotten it back up and running every time within 10 mins and it has ran fine...up until now. My brother was on it when this problem started so i'm going off what he has said. It was running great, haulin' ass, everything you'd expect, then BAM! No more acceleration and poor idle.
So far I've...
1. checked spark...good (even cut the wires back)
2. cleaned the RAVES (the PTO RAVE was all gunked up compared to the MAG side)
3. checked compression...MAG=130 PTO=135
4. Removed the airbox...no restrictions, however the PTO side does have some oil pooling up, compared to the MAG!
That's as far as I've got. Haven't checked fuel yet and I was wondering if anyone has had issues with a flipped ski taking on water into the fuel tank?

 

[LouDoo]

What year and model is your ski? Your compression is marginal, might be time for an upper end rebuild.

Lou

 

[CAVPILOT]

Lou, the ski's are in my sig line...(2) 2000 XP's.
This particular ski only has 10 hours on this engine...I had to replace it due to previous owner ingesting water and letting it sit a year. I have seen others with a higher compression, but mine don't seem too awfully low, right?!?

 

[Dr Honda]

At 130... it should run.. but not great.

If you roll a ski, and get it restarted... it should be fine. All the water will be pushed out.

I'm thinking you have a fuel issue. Start with removing the carbs and checking the internal filters.

 

[CAVPILOT]

Honda,
After each rollover, I blew all of the water out through the plug holes, sprayed the cylinders down with WD-40, cranked her back up and she ran great the rest of the day. After reading several more posts, I am now coming to that conclusion as well...pulling the carbs and going through them! UUGGHHHH! such a PITA!
What about water in the fuel tank? Not possible, right? It's a closed system, right?!

 

[LouDoo]

Check the water separator/fuel filter, it's right above the gas tank. See if there is any water. It's possible to get some water in the fuel system. If you turned it over and in the right direction, counter clockwise shouldn't be a problem. I personally have not had a problem.

Lou

 

[oldbuck]

Sounds like the filters in the carbs are clogged.

 

[CAVPILOT]

yeah, I haven't read anywhere where water in the fuel has been an issue! I assume that is why the rollover sticker on the hull is pictorially correct...to [hopefully] prevent the carbs from being submerged when rolled CW?!?
I will let you all know what I find when I get in there and look (hopefully this week!)
Thanks again!

 

[CAVPILOT]

Check the water separator/fuel filter, it's right above the gas tank.

I looked through the parts manual for the 2000 XP and I don't see this part...are you certain its part of the XP fuel system?

 

[Dr Honda]

Yep... it's #15 on a standard parts diagram.

Also... that filter can have a split O-ring, and can be leaking air, causing issues.

 

[CAVPILOT]

new pics - CARB filters and something NEW?!?

OK...got some pics tonight. The filters don't look bad at all and there was no water. I did find this little reducer in one old grey line I forgot to replace...any of you come across this piece?

 

[Dr Honda]

Thats from your accelerator pump. Is it a reducer, or a check valve?

 

[CAVPILOT]

It actually looks like a very small venturi! Large opening (in the pic) on pump side and very, very small opening on other...when held up, however, you can see straight through it. there are no internals to it. I guess it could be a check valve, but it wouldn't stop the one way flow of fuel completely. It would restrict the rate at which it flows back, however.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I became very familiar with missing high end from the factory service manual. do u have a copy?

have u tried running without the RAVE springs? (that will act as if they are off)

also in the manual it said to check the water pressure dealy on the exhaust. you could swap one off a working ski and try that.

also, did u run 12v to the RAVE selenoid and listen for the click?

what about checking the rave line off the block with it's 1 way valve?

 

[JJinSC]

It actually looks like a very small venturi! Large opening (in the pic) on pump side and very, very small opening on other...when held up, however, you can see straight through it. there are no internals to it. I guess it could be a check valve, but it wouldn't stop the one way flow of fuel completely. It would restrict the rate at which it flows back, however.

My 97XP has a check valve in this location. It is inline as opposed to in-the-line like that piece is. I wonder why the difference on yours. I have always had a hesitation between idle and take off since new and I wonder if it is because mine needs this piece. The reason I wonder is because no matter how clean and well the a-pump works, I do not seem to get a good squire from the a-pump in the mag carb. I think this is what causes my hesitation. I would be very interested in finding opinions on what this piece you describe is and what it is for.

Good find. Did that hose just happen to split there? Otherwise, How would you have even known it was there?

 

[CAVPILOT]

Sabr, I don't think I have the factory service manual on hand, just the YEAR 2000 CD-ROM TECH PUBS (is that the same?) The CD-ROM has a troubleshooting section (sect 03) but doesn't go intot he detail you are talking about with the RAVE's. And no, I have not troubleshot anything to do with the RAVE's yet.

have u tried running without the RAVE springs? (that will act as if they are off)

--are you referring to the spring INSIDE or OUTSIDE the bellows?
I will check the other things later today! Thank you for the input...hopefully there is something obvious there that's causing the PTO side to "spew" oil!

 

[CAVPILOT]

JJ,
I initially took the carbs off searching for the reason for my 3000 RPM max power problem. I was hoping to find the filters clogged, but they were not. I rebuilt the carbs months ago and didn't replace the grey lines between the carbs AND this particular line. I figured I may as well replace them now that I had the carb off again. As I was trying to pull the hose off the accel pump outlet, I felt that orifice inside and my first thought was that the nipple had broken off!! GAAAAAHH! Thank goodness that wasn't the case, but now I'm at a whole other crossroads! Speaking of accel pump squirt, as I rotated the throttle plate, mine blew fuel all over me!!! You definitely should be getting that same result when the throttle is first cracked open!
On a different subject, does anyone have a DIY trick to getting the impeller off? I need to replace my wear ring and just can't come up with a "shadetree" way to get it off!