Got me a new 1993 SP but it won't start

[d9h]

I'm new to the Jetski world. My Uncle gave me a 1993 SP that has been sitting for the last 6 years. It was well maintained as far as I can tell, but she won't start. It's got fresh gas, oil, battery and new spark plugs. I'm getting a spark at the plugs and the plugs are getting gas, but she won't start. Fuses are good. It has black fuel lines dated 1993. I've pulled apart the carb and she looked super clean. No holes are plugged. I sprayed it down with seaform just to be sure. Compression seems fine, but I haven't had them tested. She turns over fine. I've tried shooting starter fluid in the carb, but it didn't want to fire. I've tried putting starter fluid in the spark plug holes on several occasions. The first time I tried it, it acted like it was going to start, but never did. It hasn't acted like it wanted to start again since. I'm running out of ideas. Has anyone had these symptoms? Any suggestions? I've been searching the forums and haven't run across any other ideas yet.
Ready to ride
David

 

[Coastiejoe]

A few firsts,,,,

Never use starter fluid as there is no lubricant for the cylinders. It can easily destroy your engine.

Once you kill the battery do NOT jump it with a running motor. The MPEM does not like external amperage.

If you need to charge the battery nothing over 2.5 amps without disconnecting the battery.

Do not charge the battery with the lanyard attached.

If you want to spray into the cylinders use a 40:1 has/oil mix from a spray bottle.

And, you need to do a compression test to get an accurate number.

The black lines MUST be replace but let's see the compression first.

 

[d9h]

Thanks for the tips. I actually used an Ether with lubricant in the cylinders, but said starter fluid. What'll a Marina or dealer charge me to test the compression? Will they do a diagnosis for a fee or is that not the way things work? If the compression is OK, what else could it be? Could a malfunctioning cut-off switch make it not run? What about the heat sensor in the top of the head? If its' bad will it run? Is there a way to test it?
David

 

[Coastiejoe]

Thanks for the tips. I actually used an Ether with lubricant in the cylinders, but said starter fluid. What'll a Marina or dealer charge me to test the compression? Will they do a diagnosis for a fee or is that not the way things work? If the compression is OK, what else could it be? Could a malfunctioning cut-off switch make it not run? What about the heat sensor in the top of the head? If its' bad will it run? Is there a way to test it?
David

I don't know any dealers that will do diagnostics for free. I have seen a FEW that will discount it after the fact if you do the repair through them.

Compression tests are pretty easy. I'd buy a gauge or get a free loaner from Autozone for example.

Plugs out, spark plug wires grounded, full throttle, crank engine and note what the gauge says...

It could be MANY MANY things. Really no sense speculating until we get some good base engine information IMO.

 

[d9h]

I'll test the compression tonight. Anything else I should check?

 

[Coastiejoe]

I'll test the compression tonight. Anything else I should check?

Yes,,, but this info may be crucial... Let's get it and go from there..

If you WANT to do something else. Get a meter on the battery and tell us what the voltage is. The what it is while the engine is cranking. If possible, get the second reading from the output side of the solenoid. If all this confuses you, get the compression test and we will steer you from there..

 

[d9h]

Ok, did the compression test. Cylinder closest to the front of the craft gets about 30 psi consistently. First time I cranked it, it got 110 and then after that about 30psi every time. Cylinder furtherest from the front got 120 PSI every time. I see the obvious problem, but what now?

I haven't tested the battery, but it's brand new so hopefully not the issue. I'll test it later.

 

[RodInEscondido]

Always a good initial check for something in storage for a while is to check the battery cables for corrosion at the connectors plus wiggle the cables around and if there is a crumbling feeling inside the cable, replace it. Poor connections/wires anywhere means often not enough current can flow to make things work.

Also check for the same stuff inside the electrical box. Remove and clean fuses.

Good luck,

Rod

 

[Coastiejoe]

Ok, did the compression test. Cylinder closest to the front of the craft gets about 30 psi consistently. First time I cranked it, it got 110 and then after that about 30psi every time. Cylinder furtherest from the front got 120 PSI every time. I see the obvious problem, but what now?

I haven't tested the battery, but it's brand new so hopefully not the issue. I'll test it later.

I would do a re-test as the numbers you posted are horrible. And far off from each other even in the same cylinders. I am curious as to if your gauge is accurate. Use a different gauge.

If they are even close to accurate, you have engine issue. In most cases, the engine will run at 120 PSI but barely. Almost always they run ok out of the water at 120 PSI.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Does it spin over smooth and fast or not really?

 

[d9h]

I've got a new battery. I've checked the fuses and the inside of the electrical box looks brand new. I haven't found any wires to be brittal or corroded. I pulled apart the carb and it was clean as a whistle. Diaphram looked good too. The motor is getting fuel and a spark. The oil filter and gas filter appear to be fine and free flowing.

When I checked the compression, on the bad cylinder, the pressure would slowly build to 30 psi, only gaining a few pounds of PSI for each rotation.

The motor turns over smooth and fast.

I'm going to retest the compression now.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I've got a new battery. I've checked the fuses and the inside of the electrical box looks brand new. I haven't found any wires to be brittal or corroded. I pulled apart the carb and it was clean as a whistle. Diaphram looked good too. The motor is getting fuel and a spark. The oil filter and gas filter appear to be fine and free flowing.

When I checked the compression, on the bad cylinder, the pressure would slowly build to 30 psi, only gaining a few pounds of PSI for each rotation.

The motor turns over smooth and fast.

I'm going to retest the compression now.

If the 30 PSI is accurate, you are done...

You are in need of serious engine work. It will need to be opened up to better determine what the specific issue is.

 

[d9h]

Better this go-round. Must be the gauge. First cylinder is 95 to 100 PSI and the second cylinder is still at 120psi. What do you think, a head gasket or some other gasket? Or?

I pulled off the muffler and it has about 16 oz of gas/oil mix in it. The tuned pipe is pretty wet as far as my finger can feel.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Better this go-round. Must be the gauge. First cylinder is 95 to 100 PSI and the second cylinder is still at 120psi. What do you think, a head gasket or some other gasket? Or?

I pulled off the muffler and it has about 16 oz of gas/oil mix in it. The tuned pipe is pretty wet as far as my finger can feel.

Even if those numbers are correct, still considerably below where it needs to be.

You will have to open it up. Could be a few things. I am a very good learner and I read lots of tech things. I have yet to have one of these engines in my hands as far as in pieces. Though I am certain I help steer you to a good direction, others that have intimate familiarity with the engine will be able to help you better.

 

[d9h]

I'm going to try another compression gauge before I start tearing things apart.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I'm going to try another compression gauge before I start tearing things apart.

I think that is a wise thing to do.

 

[RodInEscondido]

I think that is a wise thing to do.

x2, very wise
Rod

 

[d9h]

Got a new compression tester gauge and got consistent readings this time around. Cylinder closest to the front read 100psi every time. Cylinder furtherest from the front read 110psi every time. I checked each cylinder about 6 times each. I still have the muffler off. I don't know if that would change the PSI at all but thought I would mention it. At least my cylinders are within 10% of each other. That's better than what I thought I had. Now to figure out why I'm so low. Any thoughts?

 

[Coastiejoe]

Got a new compression tester gauge and got consistent readings this time around. Cylinder closest to the front read 100psi every time. Cylinder furtherest from the front read 110psi every time. I checked each cylinder about 6 times each. I still have the muffler off. I don't know if that would change the PSI at all but thought I would mention it. At least my cylinders are within 10% of each other. That's better than what I thought I had. Now to figure out why I'm so low. Any thoughts?

Assuming that your new numbers of 100 and 110 are correct, you are so slow as the engine is on its last leg...
If you can run it for the rest of the season do so and enjoy the time you have with it. You will need to open it up over the winter months and figure out all that is needed.

Generally speaking, once you do a top end the bottom end is not too far behind it when the compression is in the 100 PSI range. Others will likely give you additional/good info. But I'm thinking i am right.

 

[d9h]

I'm back with some more questions. I appreciate everyone responses the first go-round. Things weren't sounding so good so I set the SP aside for awhile, but now I"m trying to get her running again. Since I was on this thread last September I've been trying to figure out if there was a way to increase my compression easily and without much expense. I've recently pulled the top end off and the pistons looked good, very little scarring. I replaced the rings and all the gaskets while I was in there and torqued all the bolts to spec. Compression is now 120 on both cyclinders. I know that's not great, but I've read that it ought to run. I put everything back together, got a fresh battery and cranked it. She coughed and ran rough for about 5 seconds and then has not fired again since. I've got fresh fuel, plenty of oil, I checked the spark (front cylinder is strong Blue spark, back is blue/white), spark plugs are new from last years attempt and I've shot some carb cleaner in the carb with no change.
Any suggestions on what my next step should be?

Just for curiousity, how much would a rebuild cost? I understand that rates will vary based on location, but just a general dollar figure would be helpful. Also what would they do for a rebuild? I ask this because I see where I can get a rebuilt motor from SBT delivered for roughly $600. I would think that I could install this myself as long as there is some dealer only special tool that I would need.

Thanks for your suggestion.
David

 

[RodInEscondido]

When you replaced the rings, you did hone the cylinders? You will not get a good compression test until the new rings wear in. Search the site for break-in hints.

From personal experience, and your statement earlier about oil/fuel in exhaust, I would recommend removing the drain plugs at the bottom of the crankcase (below the rv cover, one per cylinder) and drain out the stuff that tends to drain down when sitting for a long while. These drain plugs are a real good feature as far as I know only found on the 580 engines. This extra stuff in the crankcase will cause a lot of belching, burping and other bad sounds until it blows (if it will even run) out or is drained out.

A number of threads on this site regarding engine rebuild shops; SBT seems to be highly regarded as well as others. You would need the engine alignment tool (see coastiejoe for rental). I personally would go for the 2-year unconditional warranty for a few extra bux.

Rod

 

[d9h]

Thanks for the reply. I did not hone the cylinders, didn't think to do that. Will that cause issues with new rings? Will the compression increase as the rings break in? I'll try to drain crankcase in the next couple of days, if it'll stop raining long enough.


David

 

[RodInEscondido]

A few dependencies here. If cylinder dimension does not require going to oversize you should do a LIGHT honing of the cylinder, referred to as "breaking the glaze"; this allows the rings and cylinder walls to "seat". Until they seat, the compression will likely be lower. Without breaking the glaze it is difficult to determine how the rings/cylinder will seat.

Don't rub it in relating to rain ... would love to have some of that out here.

 

[d9h]

RodInEscondido, Thanks for the reply. Since I've got everything back together would it be possible to hone the cylinder just by removing the cylinder head and cover? Can I "rent" a honing tool at the parts store?
Terrible thing about the drought ya'll are having. We had one a few years ago and the source of our drinking water was literally drying up. Hopefully you will get a break soon.
Thanks,
David

 

[RodInEscondido]

No, not safe to hone installed cylinder. The stones on the hone as well as the cylinder walls during the honing process create debris that you need to clean out thoroughly. In addition to that you will not be able to hone the entire cylinder with the piston in place. In more addition, by the time you get down to the removal of the head you are only a handful of bolts away from pulling the cylinders and you have already done this once (correct?). You may be able to rent a hone, but they are pretty inexpensive and with a new one you should be confident about the condition of the stones.

'Fisu (this is a very technical term derived from saying very quickly "If I was you"), I would bite the bullet and do it right. However, you could probably go as you are, make compression tests regularly for a little while and hope for the best.

Expert opinion solicited ^^^ .

Don't see rain forcast here almost forever in the future. Eventually the neighbors will get upset at me for dancing on top of SeaDoos and cursing at blue sky, sending up smoke signals, and beating on drums ... but one of these has got to work, correct?

Good luck.

Rod