BR8ES vs B8ES

[gmcuajo]

What do you think (or know)?

Does using NGK B8ES instead of BR8ES will give more powerful spark and will advance ignition timing? I have a stock 97' GTI with 720 single carb motor and using 91 octane gasoline with Blenzal castor oil, 40:1.

Differences between both is that the BR8ES is a resistor type, and the B8ES not. The resistor of the plug is intended to eliminate electrical noise which can cause problem and distortion with electronics and radio frequency like AM, etc.

By common knowledge of what a resistor is, I can assume that without the resistor there will be higher voltage and current at the tip of the spark plug, resulting in more powerful spark and a bit of advanced timing.

At weekend I use B8ES instead of BR8ES (because a friend give me those) and the ski feels to be running better and with more power (when compared to new BR8ES).

Any "ignition guru" or any other welcome to comment and discuss.

 

[Strizzo]

No, it won't.

 

[gmcuajo]

No, it won't.

Simply "it won't". Please comment and explain a bit more. Why not?
Could the use of it lead to MPEM and/or electronic problems or it doesn't matter, won't make a difference.

 

[Coastiejoe]

In the Polaris skis if you have resister and put in non-resisters it runs like crap. Can't go the other way either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[nitr0genics]

Simply "it won't". Please comment and explain a bit more. Why not?
Could the use of it lead to MPEM and/or electronic problems or it doesn't matter, won't make a difference.

the only difference between BR8ES and B8ES is the BR8ES is a resistor type plug so it just filters out electronic interference/noise theyhave the same gap and heat exchange

 

[racerxxx]

The R is a resistor type spark plug and here is the answer to your question:


NGK "R" or resistor spark plugs use a 5k ohm ceramic resistor in the spark plug to suppress ignition noise generated during sparking.

NGK strongly recommends using resistor spark plugs in any vehicle that uses on-board computer systems to monitor or control engine performance. This is because resistor spark plugs reduce electromagnetic interference with on-board electronics.

They are also recommended on any vehicle that has other on-board electronic systems such as engine-management computers, two-way radios, GPS systems, depth finders or whenever recommended by the manufacturer.

In fact, using a non-resistor plug in certain applications can actually cause the engine to suffer undesirable side effects such as an erratic idle, high-rpm misfire, engine run-on, power drop off at certain rpm levels and abnormal combustion.

 

[Hghgrad]

My 97 xp would only run for 15-20 seconds on the b8es's that were in when I bought it. The previous owner couldn't every figure out why it wouldn't run, so I picked it up cheap and changed the plugs. Runs like a top now.


I'd stick with what is suggested by seadoo. There's a reason they want br8es in there. Unless its highly modified, there's no reason to change.

 

[gmcuajo]

My 97 xp would only run for 15-20 seconds on the b8es's that were in when I bought it. The previous owner couldn't every figure out why it wouldn't run, so I picked it up cheap and changed the plugs. Runs like a top now.


I'd stick with what is suggested by seadoo. There's a reason they want br8es in there. Unless its highly modified, there's no reason to change.

Mmm... Yeah, but all damaged spark plug will give you problems not matter the type. Never try new B8ES?

 

[gmcuajo]

In the Polaris skis if you have resister and put in non-resisters it runs like crap. Can't go the other way either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

You mean, if one model uses resistor plug you can't run non-resistor plug. You mean it to be different model by model. And the same the other way, if it is supposed to use non-resistor plugs you can't use resistor plugs. Right?

Have you ever check if both models, the ones with resistor plugs and the non-resistor plugs, uses the same caps? Some caps have resistors in them with the same purpose.

 

[Coastiejoe]

You mean, if one model uses resistor plug you can't run non-resistor plug. You mean it to be different model by model. And the same the other way, if it is supposed to use non-resistor plugs you can't use resistor plugs. Right?

Have you ever check if both models, the ones with resistor plugs and the non-resistor plugs, uses the same caps? Some caps have resistors in them with the same purpose.

That is correct. Most do use Resister plugs. But not all. I owned three Polaris skis before my Seadoos. Had a 97, 98 and a 99. 97 and 99 were same model and one called for resister and one did not.

When it comes to spark plugs. I only use what bus called for as I learned this lesson with my Polaris skis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Dr Honda]

What do you think (or know)?

As above.... No it won't. In fact... it could lower the putput. (see below)

Does using NGK B8ES instead of BR8ES will give more powerful spark and will advance ignition timing?

Ignition timing has nothing to do with spark energy.

Differences between both is that the BR8ES is a resistor type, and the B8ES not.

The only correct thing you've said.

The resistor of the plug is intended to eliminate electrical noise which can cause problem and distortion with electronics and radio frequency like AM, etc.

Exactly !!! So... what do you think EMF noise will do to your MPEM, and CDI unit ??? It can play all kinds of games with the electronics, as they run. So... you can misfire, and miss-interpret the ignition signal, casing it to fire at random timing.

By common knowledge of what a resistor is, I can assume that without the resistor there will be higher voltage and current at the tip of the spark plug, resulting in more powerful spark and a bit of advanced timing.

Common knowledge??? Generally... A resistor does not clip voltage. It lowers current. Sure... if you put a massive load on the wire... you would lose voltage. But in this case... it's a moot point, because the voltage is so high, and the air gap of the plug is magnitudes higher resistance. (see the explanation next) You would be looking at less than 1% voltage drop. BUT... a +60% drop in current. In turn... a MASSIVE reduction is RF/EMF noise.


FYI... if you want to control voltage with resistors... you need to loop, and divide the current. This is how a TPS works. The pot has a center tap, and the output is grounded. So... as it sweeps... the resistance on either side of the tap will change in proportion relative to each other. The output is a controlled voltage, independent of the current. (it's called a voltage divider)

At weekend I use B8ES instead of BR8ES (because a friend give me those) and the ski feels to be running better and with more power (when compared to new BR8ES).

I won't argue this point, because I'm not there... and it's pure opinion. It very well could be the Placebo effect. But... I can guarantee that this has been checked and verified by every engine builder, that a "Resistor" plug, or suppressor wires don't effect the HP output. Otherwise they would just shield the wires, ground everything, and run solid core wires.

Any "ignition guru" or any other welcome to comment and discuss.

That's straight from the head Guru... who happens to build engines in my own shop... have a Physics Degree... and my EE.


So... that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.


FYI... you WILL burn out your coil(s) and/or your CDI without them.

 

[Dr Honda]

That is correct. Most do use Resister plugs. But not all. I owned three Polaris skis before my Seadoos. Had a 97, 98 and a 99. 97 and 99 were same model and one called for resister and one did not.

When it comes to spark plugs. I only use what bus called for as I learned this lesson with my Polaris skis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

Actually... that's a good point.


On some of the Fuji engines... they ran a resistor cap on the wire... and then had you use a standard plug.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Actually... that's a good point.


On some of the Fuji engines... they ran a resistor cap on the wire... and then had you use a standard plug.

Also a good point. Until unread your post I had forgotten the wires were "different" due to resister or non-resister plugs on my Polaris skis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[gmcuajo]

Thanks for your reply. Very useful.

 

[gmcuajo]

Also a good point. Until unread your post I had forgotten the wires were "different" due to resister or non-resister plugs on my Polaris skis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

I asked you that same question.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I asked you that same question.

Yes you did, and I half answered your question. LOL

I simply misread the lower Half of your post to me. Sorry about that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[gmcuajo]

In conclusion maybe it was just a perception, and best use what the manual say. Ok!

 

[gmcuajo]

Common knowledge??? Generally... A resistor does not clip voltage. It lowers current. Sure... if you put a massive load on the wire... you would lose voltage. But in this case... it's a moot point, because the voltage is so high, and the air gap of the plug is magnitudes higher resistance. (see the explanation next) You would be looking at less than 1% voltage drop. BUT... a +60% drop in current. In turn... a MASSIVE reduction is RF/EMF noise.

60% drop in current isn't 60% less powerful spark!

V=RI
P=VI

Please explain.