Argghhhh..... I managed to strip my Stator Center Plug.... .Now What?

[jasguild]

Hi

I was attempting to change the stator oil on my 2003 Utopia and managed to strip the center plug. I tried to use an impact wrench (the type that is used with a mallet) but that did not work. I eventually utilized a socket set but instead of loosening the plug, it stripped the center one. Note that I was not attempting take the whole stator housing off. I was just hoping to drain an fill by raising the bow of the boat.

However, I suspect I will now have take the whole stator housing and take it some where to have the plug removed but before I screwed up anything else, I figured I should get some insights. Additionally I have some questions

1) I hate these two stator plugs. Is it possible(advisable) to use a stainless steel bolt instead? If no, where can I buy replacement plugs screws?

Fortunately I did not drain the oil so I can use my boat until I have all the parts and ready to undertake this repair.

Thanks

 

[Tim75]

center oil plug

Hi

I was attempting to change the stator oil on my 2003 Utopia and managed to strip the center plug. I tried to use an impact wrench (the type that is used with a mallet) but that did not work. I eventually utilized a socket set but instead of loosening the plug, it stripped the center one. Note that I was not attempting take the whole stator housing off. I was just hoping to drain an fill by raising the bow of the boat.

However, I suspect I will now have take the whole stator housing and take it some where to have the plug removed but before I screwed up anything else, I figured I should get some insights. Additionally I have some questions

1) I hate these two stator plugs. Is it possible(advisable) to use a stainless steel bolt instead? If no, where can I buy replacement plugs screws?

Fortunately I did not drain the oil so I can use my boat until I have all the parts and ready to undertake this repair.

Thanks

It's nice living in FL where we use our boats 12 months!

The center plug ( and the fill plug above it are NOT bolts. They are pipe plugs. If it is still the OEM plug, it is brass. Use a drill (LEFT-HAND preferred) and drill thru. Use an easy-out and remove it. Be careful banging on this casting. They are not of the highest quality. You may need to remove the steering nozzle. Replace your plugs with brass (NOT steel or iron) and wrap plug with plumber's teflon tape before installing. Do NOT over-tighten or you may crack the casting.

Using a LEFT hand drill may unscrew the plug in process. If you pack the flutes of the drill with grease, you minimize the chips going into the housing.

 

[jasguild]

It's nice living in FL where we use our boats 12 months!

The center plug ( and the fill plug above it are NOT bolts. They are pipe plugs. If it is still the OEM plug, it is brass. Use a drill (LEFT-HAND preferred) and drill thru. Use an easy-out and remove it. Be careful banging on this casting. They are not of the highest quality. You may need to remove the steering nozzle. Replace your plugs with brass (NOT steel or iron) and wrap plug with plumber's teflon tape before installing. Do NOT over-tighten or you may crack the casting.

Using a LEFT hand drill may unscrew the plug in process. If you pack the flutes of the drill with grease, you minimize the chips going into the housing.

It is great indeed to live in Florida. The temperature today in Tampa is expected to surpass 80 degrees. :0

Back to my predicament. A few follow up questions. If I will have to take off the rudder and nuzzle, doesn't it make sense to just remove the stator as well? I am just thinking it will allow me to remove the chippings..

Also, does mercury still make these plugs? I would prefer a bolt.

 

[Tim75]

stator plug

It is great indeed to live in Florida. The temperature today in Tampa is expected to surpass 80 degrees. :0

Back to my predicament. A few follow up questions. If I will have to take off the rudder and nuzzle, doesn't it make sense to just remove the stator as well? I am just thinking it will allow me to remove the chippings..

Also, does mercury still make these plugs? I would prefer a bolt.

Yes, taking off the stator is the proper way to change the oil. Before you start taking off the stator bolts, liberally spray with penetrating oil. My preferred is CRC marine formula. Allow at least 24 hours. Loosen bolts SLOWLY with hand tools only. An impact wrench can snap a bolt instantly.

Parts- my source is in Pompano: BAM Marine. You can check there for parts. However- you have found the weakness of that kind of plug. Do you really want to repeat that? Try Home Depot or Lowes for a brass plug with either a square or hex drive. Cheaper than OEM.

There is no bolt that has the proper thread to match a pipe plug.

There are many threads here about changing gear and stator oil.

 

[buckeye_paul]

I would like to add that I apply a little heat to those plugs when removing them. That pipe dope dries rock hard.

 

[jasguild]

Hi Tim and Buckeye

Thanks for your insights. I may get my mechanic involved simply because he has the tools and more experience dealing with issues such as this.

I read through one of the guides available to take a part the stator and noticed there were at least two instances where the guide suggestion differed from yours. Of course experts can have differing opinions so I think this is quiite normal and not an issue of right or wrong.

These two issues are

1) the guide recommends using impact tools to take off the bolts holding the nozzle, rudder and stator if needed whereas you advised against that approach

2) the guide advises against using teflon tape on the plugs and instead recommends thread lockers such as locktite whereas use suggested teflon tape.

Can you let me know your thoughts/experience on these issues?

Sincerely

 

[Dr Honda]

On the pump... I always use hand tools. As above... an impact can cause damage. but, I find a little heat can help on some of the more stubborn bolts. also, a good soak with a quality penetrating oil is a must.


As far as resealing... I normally use a fuel safe paste. But, in a pinch, I've used RTV or tape.


You will need to take the stator off, and drill the fitting. I like left handed drills for things like this, since they sometimes grab, and run out the damaged part. I HATE ez outs. If you break it... you can be in a worse place. If you do drill.... make sure, 100%, that all the metal bits are out of the stator. Otherwise, they will destroy the bearing, and seal.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

You guys are begging for trouble using brass, IMO. I'm surprised to hear Mercury is using a brass plug in this application, this boat must not be saltwater rated by them.

Galvanic corrosion is the reason I always avoid using these two metals together, (copper(in brass alloy) and aluminum) don't get along, in my experience. Brass also contains zinc, a sacrificial metal. Keep brass as far away from seawater as physically possible.

I would ordinarily use a stainless steel plug but I often too use a plastic plug in the case of NPT Especially use plastic, if you feel you cannot avoid over torquing the fastener and cracking the aluminum casting or stripping the aluminum threads.

http://www.proboat.com/beware-the-brass.html
"While brass has many familiar uses aboard—from clocks and joinerwork trim to lamps and electrical components—it should never be used in raw-water"

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml
"Aluminum will be very susceptible to galvanic corrosion in contact with copper"

 

[jasguild]

Ahhh I am an accountant so I really have nothing to contribute on this but I am hopeful some of you guys will help.

From an accountant's perspective, I like the idea of a plastic plug but how strong are they and where would I find a plastic plug for this application?

I went to CRowley Marine website and their diagram does not appear to list the stator fill/drain plug as a separate part item. There is a plug that appears to belong some where on the starboard side of the wear ring housing, but I am not sure if that is the same one used for the stator fill/drain plug. That part number is 428611 PLUG-PIPE which is #38 on the diagram(see below).

http://www.crowleymarine.com/mercury-outboard/parts/7596_200.cfm

If I cant find an OEM plug, I will be forced to find an alternative but even if the Mercury plug is available, I would still consider an alternative.

As such this discussion is very pertinent.

Thanks for your help

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Types of plastic polymers used to make pipe thread plugs might be nylon, PVC, or PVDF. PVC is commonly available in the plumbing department at local hardware stores, sometimes they have the other two materials. I can usually score the nylon plugs through my local nut/bolt dealer, I purchase plenty of stainless fasteners from him as well. Nylon is my preference b/c it's not brittle and has high impact resistance.

I should say, honestly, I don't really know which exact plug you're replacing on your jet pump but it sounded like from above it's pipe thread (NPT) male threaded, so my wild guess from my armchair is it's 1/8" NPT male thread with either recessed allen head or perhaps a square head that extends outward. If water must flow past at high rate, perpendicular or parallel to the thread depending, will determine whether you need a recessed allen or external flat wrenching surface. Material strength typically isn't an issue unless pressure differentials are high, such as in a hydraulic system that can reach a couple thousand psi. (plastic plug becomes projectile) Obviously, the materials must be capable of withstanding the thermal conditions involved, certain low temp plastics wouldn't be a good choice in high temperature applications.

Using teflon tape as a thread sealer CAN cause a wide variety of problems depending on the situation, I discourage the habit of using teflon tape.

For sealing threads, I've been using Permatex No. 2 (2B) for decades: "Use where sealing is more important than adhesion". Available at your local autoparts store. or, use Permatex No.3 (3B) if you don't want it to harden at all. Permatex No.1 (1B) is great if you want the sealant to stiffen up, like on v-6/8 engine intake manifold rails. I avoid most silicone sealers, unless I cannot find a better alternative such as tarred chinking twine/rope.

 

[jasguild]

Sportster 2001.

This is the OEM plug that I need to replace. Is it the type you believe is candidate to be replaced by nylon or plastic?

http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts/3236.cfm

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Sportster 2001.

This is the OEM plug that I need to replace. Is it the type you believe is candidate to be replaced by nylon or plastic?

http://www.crowleymarine.com/parts/3236.cfm

Okay, I see. That's a tapered male thread pipe plug with countersunk allen head, it doesn't need to be very tight BTW, don't overtorque. Thread sealer is your friend, hand tighten only. Yes, those are available in a plastic version but the countersunk allen wrenching surface might not provide the reliability you desire(plastic head is easily stripped, easier than stripping brass head).

Is there some reason(such as perpendicular water flow disruption or human snag hazard safety issue) you cannot use an outie plug, something like this?
http://www.fastenal.com/web/product...6hMdGH!-173602653!-518503570?isPunchout=false

Else, I'd look for a stainless version of what you have, something like this:
http://www.summitracing.com/search/product-line/performance-stainless-steel-plugs

I avoid mixing incompatible alloys like that, not sure what Mercury was thinking. Mild galvanized steel will also corrode, so that's no good either. You can probably match up a replacement plug size at Home Depot, once you've removed the plug by drilling it out and using an easy-out to back it out.

 

[jasguild]

I like the outie plug. I am however thinking about your question about the water flow. I will look at it when I get home but right now I think water flow may not always be parallel with the plug. It probably would move across the top of the when the rudder changes direction to turn the boat. However, it would never be perpendicular. At most I would guess it would move over at 45 degree angle

Do they make these Outie's in Nylon which you suggested earlier is stronger?

Sincerely

 

[jasguild]

Also, I found a reference which might indicate the size of the thread and size of plug.

It is listed as .250 - 18

Does that make sense?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Yes, I think you can probably locate a nylon material, the HDPE (High Density Polyethelyne) is a pretty good material as well. Grab a couple, in case one is lost or broken while changing your gear oil. PVC plastic is very common (likely Home Depot's will have mostly this) is a bit on the brittle side, but would probably be fine for your application until you can locate the better stuff.

Here's a nylon type:
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23798

Also, there's a grub style available that will be flush or nearly flush if that's what you need, it has a deep screwdriver slot which I think should work better than an recessed hex allen:
http://www.plasticsfasteners.com/PipePlugs.html

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Also, I found a reference which might indicate the size of the thread and size of plug.

It is listed as .250 - 18

Does that make sense?

Yep, that's 1/4" 18 threads per inch (tpi) tapered male pipe thread!

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Here, you can see the NPT thread specs and dimensions:
http://machiningproducts.com/html/NPT-Thread-Dimensions.html

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

You might need to use an easyout screw/bolt extractor like this to remove the original brass plug once it's drilled through just push this device in and use it to back out the plug, I'd choose the spiral fluted one, and largest diameter to fit, maybe 1/4" drill size, about the same diameter of the allen hex in the stripped plug's head. The larger diameter allows more torque, these extractors are made of hardened high carbon steel(carbide) and if the diameter is too small, it can snap off inside, making the repair more complicated:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw_extractor

What to do if your easyout is overtorqued and snaps or breaks off:
http://kk.org/cooltools/ask/questions/258/how-can-i-remove-a-broken-easy-out

 

[jasguild]

thank you so much for your help. I will do a little more research and let you know what I ultimately decide on

 

[jasguild]

Since it seems I am going to have to take apart my stator, I am thinking it makes sense to change the stator seal and the seal protector that is inside.

Is there any other part that I should consider changing as well?

Thanks

 

[Tim75]

brass plug

You guys are begging for trouble using brass, IMO. I'm surprised to hear Mercury is using a brass plug in this application, this boat must not be saltwater rated by them.

Galvanic corrosion is the reason I always avoid using these two metals together, (copper(in brass alloy) and aluminum) don't get along, in my experience. Brass also contains zinc, a sacrificial metal. Keep brass as far away from seawater as physically possible.

I would ordinarily use a stainless steel plug but I often too use a plastic plug in the case of NPT Especially use plastic, if you feel you cannot avoid over torquing the fastener and cracking the aluminum casting or stripping the aluminum threads.

http://www.proboat.com/beware-the-brass.html
"While brass has many familiar uses aboard—from clocks and joinerwork trim to lamps and electrical components—it should never be used in raw-water"

http://www.finishing.com/78/97.shtml
"Aluminum will be very susceptible to galvanic corrosion in contact with copper"

I can understand the reluctance to use brass in raw seawater app's but remember this is a small boat that is trailered and does not spend its life in the water. Hopefully, owner will follow recommended flushing and maintenance routine. Plug is easily inspected, and removed yearly. Teflon tape lubes threads on assembly, and does not harden with age. I have had mine in service for 5+ years with no problems. There is not enough protrusion from square-drive plugs to require allen-wrench drive.