99 GTI buzz/rattle noise from starter solenoid, no crank

[dashunde]

Our 99 GTI developed a new show-stopping problem today...

Connect dess, gives normal 2-beep.
Push starter button, solenoid makes a buzz/rattle/clatter noise as if its cycling rapidly.
Battery is at 12.5v
Restarted perfectly normal 2 minutes before putting it on the lift (no sign of trouble then)
Does not crank at all if the solenoid is jumped across, spark upon contact is small.
When jumping across the big red solenoid wires/posts there is a faint noise from the starter/stator area, and I think I got a single beep.
15a fuse in the solenoid box is ok.

Please see this thread about other electrical issue that has gone away.

Thank you for any and all help diagnosing this.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Buzz is almost always a bad battery or poor connection.

Get the battery load tested, let us know the results.

 

[dashunde]

Odd, it cranked strongly/quickly/normally just a couple of minutes before putting it on the lift.
It was tied to the dock, started it up, went around the corner of the dock and put it on the lift... 30 minutes later at next start it just buzzes?

Would/could a bad starter/stator cause the same solenoid buzz noise?
I had to restart this thing 20+ times in just a few minutes yesterday due to another issue with it dying while riding as if the lanyard was pulled.
That problem may have been caused by the kinda loose 15a fuse in the rear box.. maybe?

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Classic symptoms and method for over-stressing a battery, assuming battery will show 12.5V at rest but drops to near zero as soon as the start button is pressed (solenoid is jumped).

If battery voltage remains well over 11V while cranking (while jumpering large terminals on solenoid), this indicates a problem elsewhere such as a corroded battery cable or defective starter. Typically, a strong battery will remain near 11V while cranking. If battery voltage drops out to much less than 10.5~11V while cranking there's no chance of firing the ignition (might still spin the motor under 11V, probably slowly though).

Troubleshooting is a process of eliminating possibilities.

Try to keep in mind, the MPEM is somewhat sensitive to voltage spikes and often MPEM failures occur during these battery events. Thus it could be argued that it's best to load-test and confirm the battery condition externally from the machine.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Also I read your other thread here: http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...ike-lanyard-is-pulled-but&p=530129#post530129

I want to point out that if while the engine is running the battery becomes disconnected from the MPEM for some reason (such as a corroded or lose wire in the harness), the engine will stop running.

 

[Coastiejoe]

Generally a bad starter will not create a buzz as compared to a solenoid when it is a low voltage issue.

 

[dashunde]

All very good points... I'm a bit rusty in my electrical diag.

A bad starter + good battery should produce a decent spark when the solenoid is jumped, instead of the puny spark I'm getting.
I'd also expect one of the wires to get a little warm...

I'll definitely check the battery.
We also have a GTX that I can steal a battery from, but its a pita to pull/reinstall, especially when both are sitting on their lifts :/

I'll update...

 

[dashunde]

Battery drops to around 3v when the solenoid is jumped. Getting a new battery.
The starter motor also was heard turning slowly... all good news really.

I'm also hoping the jinky battery and its (assumed) lack of good balasting qualities was center to its diying as if the lanyard was pulled.

Thank you all!

 

[Coastiejoe]

Probably junk battery. The starter was TRYING to do its job. Just not enough volts to do so.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm also hoping the jinky battery and its (assumed) lack of good balasting qualities was center to its diying as if the lanyard was pulled.

Thank you all!

This has happened before many times, engine quits and won't restart due to intermittent battery.

If the ski quits running and the gauges stop functioning simultaneously, this indicates MPEM power was interrupted or the lanyard caused the MPEM to shut down. Something as simple as a small chunk of metal dust stuck to the lanyard key magnet can cause this.

If the problem persists, try this "wiggle test" diagnostic:

To begin test, remove key from lanyard and press start button then normally the gauges should power on briefly to read fuel level, etc. for about 30 seconds.

While the gauges are powered on, lightly/gently wiggle specific suspected sections of the wiring harness to see if gauges power down prematurely (for example prematurely might be only 5 seconds, instead of the normal 30 seconds).

Maybe this way you can at least isolate the general area of the lose connection in preparation for a closer look.

Oh BTW, have a look at the miles of wire and high $$$ components now used in the new fuel injected skis, woo-hoo for the service department!!!

 

[dashunde]

Thanks for the info... Will-do if the dying-while-riding issue returns/persists with a new battery installed.

A couple years ago I rode a RTX, tons of fun, very quick and it stayed planted in normal boat wake waters much better than I could have imagined.
But it would be downright dangerous in the wrong hands on Lake Of The Ozarks with all of the obnoxiously huge cabin cruisers around... we have far too many diesel powered 45-60 footers on a narrow snake-like lake thats ~50 miles long (depending on how you view it).
They've become a real problem there creating enormous waves where 18-28 footers are the norm. We occasionally get a wave over the bow of our 26 footer at idle.
I have young nephews, and inexperienced friends... no way I'd put them on a 260hp ski of any kind there, even if it were given to me for free.

Seadoo can keep the new stuff.. I'm not paying the entry price, nor the repair/maintenance costs.

We started off in ~1994 with a XP & GT(?) three-seater, and replaced them with a 1999 GTI & GTX.
The GTI is easier to ride, better balance, and doesn't kill your thumb (single carb).
The GTX is much more nose-heavy, plows through waves especially with a full tank, those twin carbs will tax a thumb quickly... it has 203 hours.
I wouldn't mind doing a few mods to the GTX; finger throttle, longer bars to get further back on it, somehow relocate some other weight to the back, and reinforce the footwells in the outer front corners due to surface cracking... assumed to be due to the extra weight/nose heavy.. Our GTI has zero cracking anywhere and has 5x the run time, and its ridden harder.
Otherwise, these 2 1999's have been trouble-free, nary a serious failure of any kind over 16 years and they get used almost every weekend (particularly the user-friendly GTI).

I'm currently hunting a late 90's early 2000's XP with low time and in near perfect condition (garaged).
I miss our early-90's XP and its ability to jump those big waves.. might as well make use of the big cruisers.
Might even go in for a pristine 2-seater single carb (SPI?), something that is more of a challenge to ride and can be tossed around a bit.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I see you asked about snapping the coil e-box cover back in place.

For mine the gasket goes onto the main box lip first then the cover snaps over that. I think if the gasket is "dry", and humidity probably doesn't help, it could roll and get tangled in the lid so a bit of grease (sliicone plug boot grease or spray oil for silicone gasket is best choice) or light oil on the gasket will help lube it.

I had bought new my 1st Seadoo, it was a '95 XP and what a great runner that would go and go, ran like a top. We had a blast for many years on that thing. Anyway, so we let it go in a moment of weakness and still regret it, the excuse at that time was there just wasn't enough indoor storage space to keep it from getting weather beaten to death.

Huge cabin cruisers are a sight to behold and the wake is an impressive wall of water, our lake here fortunately is too small and shallow for the big ones.

 

[dashunde]

I dont recall the specifics of the late 90's early 2000's XP/similar 2 seaters... which is a good all-arounder?
Honestly, I'd probably be happy with any 717 powered 2-seater. But I'd take more power if available.

I really think I'd be limited by whats available around here and what kind of condition its in... I'd rather have nothing than a problematic pos.
Is there any engine I should avoid? Not real tickled with the prospect of dual-carbs, or the weight of a engine like that (951?) in our GTX.

Aside from the models with a hour meter, is there any way of extracting hour info from models with basic gauges? (MPEM reader, etc?)

Maybe I'll make a new thread on what to look for within this era..

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The beauty of the 717 lies in it's simplicity, the larger and notably more powerful 787 has more moving parts such as a counterbalance shaft and RAVE valves thus considerably more going on under the hood.

I'm not sure which of the hulls are the best for tossing into a wave, etc. but our XP to me was way too stable at speed for making quick moves. Man, that thing would do quite well up against the other more powerful skis that were introduced the next few years, IMO. Im not speed racer though, 40~45 is fast enough for me on a ski. I don't cruise that fast in my boat and one of the reasons I like it probably, that and it's shallow draft and easy to handle (trailer, launch, anchor in the wind) size.

If I'm not mistaken, all the DESS models keep track of engine run time in the MPEM. I figure in my case I don't mind something problematic considering the price of new can get outrageous, I'd rather turn wrenches than make payments through winter when you can't use the boat anyway.

A new powerhead for these little seadoos is MUCH less expensive than anything fuel injected, some of those outboards 350HPish are pushing $60K+ just for the mass of metal hanging off the transom...... Okay so these old 2-stroke Seadoos don't last 6,000 hours, more like 250 hours for the 951 and 400~600 hours for the smaller Rotax 2-strokes but I take good care of mine and so far, so good. I won't mind forking over a few bucks for a reman motor when the time comes.

Lots of guys look for these old seadoos, take them completely apart and refurbish them, for me it beats spending $20k minimum on something new.

 

[dashunde]

Update for those searching similar problems.

We replaced the battery with a new one... the first new battery was junk too despite the battery maintainer saying it was good, so it just beeped twice and no crank, barely a click.
With the second new battery it fired right up.

Thanks all for the help