96 xp

[VaDeerHunter]

I just finished replacing all the fuel lines, had the old gray stuff. Pulled carbs and replaced the internal filters. Changed oil filter. I reinstalled the carbs, fired it up for second then shut her down. Put back on all the stuff over the carbs. Rolled her outside, hooked up the hose, water off. Fired up the motor took a second to turn on water. I got very quick squeal and it stopped and now will not restart. It had been running fair but stopped on its own and had to be restarted in the water a couple of times so the filter change and hose change was a good start. One of the carb filters was 50% blocked up the other was just a wee bit dirty. It turns over fine and seems to have compression. What could I have done or was this just bad karma?

Suggestions please, I now have no running ski for the 4th!

Pat

 

[AdamXP800]

Check the compression with gauge, get an inline spark tester and check for spark for starts

 

[LouDoo]

Did you bleed the oil pump when you changed the oil filter?

Lou

 

[VaDeerHunter]

It is getting some spark because it catches but won't keep running. Also my spark tester shows spark getting to the wires. Compression is a 100 and change in both cylinders.

Thanks,

Pat

 

[VaDeerHunter]

The oil lines were full and it did run for a few minutes the first check. It acts like its flooding, I wonder if I screwed something up when I put the carbs back together. It tries to start for couple of times then quits trying. I do smell gas and the return line is full, is that normal?

Pat

 

[El Toro 33809]

The compression on the engine should be at least 135 or so. Below that and is needs to end work. Ideal is 150. How much change on top of the 100?

 

[AdamXP800]

I hope it's a hundred and a good bit of change, otherwise it isn't going to run

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I need a better compression gauge so will pick one up in the morning. The one I have is a cheap on you have to hold on an it does not hold the peak. It does show over 130, it looks like. More in the AM and later tomorrow. I am going to pull the carbs and make sure I didn't hose something up when I changed the filters. Thanks to all for your help!

Pat

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I did not bleed the oil pump, my bad, but checked it this morning and there were no bubbles and a steady flow right from the git go. I sure hope this is fuel related. The whole thought of taking the engine out and having to do that kind of work is daunting at best. But I guess the compression check will give me some verdict as to where to look.

Thanks!

 

[Britrick]

Have you double checked that you put all the fuel hoses back into the correct positions ?( and that you switched the fuel tap back to on ?)

 

[Strizzo]

sorry to say but it sounds like you might have had a screw come loose and go into the rotary valve. pull the plugs and crank the motor over, looking for even pressure and sounds from both plugs. the tone of the sound should also change on both with varying throttle position.

 

[VaDeerHunter]

Ouch! Some good news though, I think. I went out this morning and just on a whim tried to start it. It did start and ran for about 5 seconds and stopped. I will recheck the fuel lines but I did swap them out one at a time to make they were in the right position and order. I would assume it would not run at all if the compression was off or run at all on one cylinder. I going to go backwards and make sure I didn't reassemble something out of order or something. I am concerned though because I did have a small washer go MIA. I did pull the plugs to see if there was any metal or pieces of ground stuff on the plugs and put a rag over each cylinder to see if something came out, nothing. I guess the next step after checking the carbs out is to pull the RAVE valves and see if they are damaged. I assume it is possible to damage a valve and not completely pork the engine providing the valve did not lose parts of itself.

 

[AdamXP800]

A squeel sound and MIA washer... Not good. It could have gone down the carb

 

[VaDeerHunter]

Some good news, I found the washer in the bottom of the boat, and I did a compression check and got a solid 150. So I must have screwed up a carb or carbs when I put them back together. I would bet it is the one with the fuel pump. The back one only had the bottom taken off to change out the fuel filter. The spark works because it did run for a short minute. I think something I did is choking off the gas. I wonder if in my lack of experience I put the pump diaphragm in backwards. All the rest was just spraying it with carb cleaner. Man I feel stupid this week!

 

[- BiRkS_]

Be sure to cover the intake when you pull that carb off! I use those blue shop towels. Before I move anything, any opening on the engine gets stuffed with a towel. Double check your work. When you cleaned the carbs, did you take out the needle blow any crud out of the seat?

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I am taking them off again after really getting torqued. I realized that if I had been careful and gotten better advice from the sources I used, I could have changed those little filters without taking the carbs off. I took one of the ends off out of curiosity and no fuel came out. I think I may have put the pump back together with diaphragm in backwards. What a dunz. I only pulled one side with the needle and washed it out with carb cleaner and checked the needle function that is also the one with the pump so I should be able to see if there might be any crud there. I bet I put it in backwards...man am I feeling stupid. Especially since I could have saved all this hassle by just changing the filters.

Thanks for the help!!! We shall see sometime this week if I can find the time.

Pat

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I took them off again and checked both carbs, I did have them right and I took your advice and checked the needle seats and they were clean and flowing. Now I have an idea of what I did wrong but I think I may have had the hoses screwed up. I had the hose with the Y connector going to an in on one carb and an out on the other. I think it should be an x pattern where the out of one goes to the in on the other. Am I correct, because the other way doesn't make any sense. I have a picture but it will not post once up loaded or maybe I am not waiting long enough.

Pat

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

When I install a carb, I suck the air out of the fuel lines through the fuel return to the tank. I've also been thinking about putting one of those outboard motor hand pump bulbs on mine but haven't needed to, yet.

I also push and pull the fuel pump diaphragm with my mouth through a hose connected to the pulse port, to make sure the pump is working and the valves are sealing.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The carb with the fuel pump has a pulse line which goes to the crankcase an input line for fuel into the pump, an output line from the pump to supply fuel the second carb, and a T'd fuel return where return fuel from the second carb joins and is sent off to the fuel tank.

If you drop a fuel line in a can of fuel and connect it to the fuel pump input, and a second hose to the fuel pump pulse line, you can use your mouth to push the fuel pump diaphragm back and forth and pump fuel from the fuel can up through the fuel pump and into the filter chamber of both carbs, you can see the fuel coming back out of the return line from each carb through where the two return lines are T'd together and back to the fuel can, as you move the diaphragm back and forth.

 

[Strizzo]

theres a pic of the fuel hose routing and locations of the various adjustment screws around here somewhere, hang on...

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I did find a pic and now I have the lines right. Strange discovery, the vent line and the return at the baffle were reversed. I will try the pulse thing and see what happens. The dealer reversed those lines I wonder if that is causing the fuel to not make it to the carb.

Thanks,

Pat

 

[Strizzo]

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?40380-Carburetor-Adjustments

read this thread. then read it again. then read all the threads that thread links to. when you're done you'll have an idea of what tuning the carbs entails.

 

[VaDeerHunter]

I guess I did something over may head. All I was actually trying to do is change the hoses and swap the filters. I made no other changes to the carbs. Now I have created a mess for myself with no real help around here to turn to. I can't get it to run long enough to even get to be able to start making adjustments. I also changed nothing on the carbs adjustment wise when I took them off, assuming just changing the filters would not require a bunch of adjustments. Things I do know are that the engine has 150# per cylinder compression which I assume bodes well for the rings and that the RAVE plates are sealing, oil is flowing, the Rotary plate is not damaged and has a good seal. Spark appears to be good since it does fire runs for a few seconds then stops. I intend to check the pulse line for flow today and then try and see based on another comment if the carbs are actually flowing fuel. I am really frustrated because all I wanted to do is follow advice about the fuel lines and the filters. It was running okay but would stop on its own then need to be restarted then would be fine again for a while. I cleaned the fuel switch and discovered the "reserve" side flowed more gas than the "on" side so ran it that way and it got better but still stopped occasionally. That is what drove changing the filters and the lines. One of the filters was dirty and the other just had a very little crud in it. So I guess what I am being told is I need to start over with the carbs and do everything on the list in the link and see if that fixes it. I wish I could find someone in Northern VA who could work on the ski. The only Seadoo dealer won't touch old skis without a $500 deposit. Again I want to thank everyone for their input. I will do a couple of checks today and then take a break and work on the carbs next week. I have a boat that hasn't gotten in the water yet and has water in the fuel tank that has to be dealt with, more fun and games. At least how it got there is solved. All for want of an O ring on a gas cap. Not been a fun on the water year so far. Hope all of you have a great 4th!

 

[VaDeerHunter]

May be on something. I was looking in the intake to see and make sure the washer I found is the one or if there was some damage to the rotary valve. I needed to turn it over to make sure the plate was clean and had no gouges in it. Now take this into account, I am used to outboards and automotive engines, but should there be air coming back out of the intake? I am having a sinking feeling that the squeal may have been the ROTAX plate (not sure what you call it) slipping and now it is out of time. Any idea if I am on the right track? The plate is moving and is sealing and getting oil. Is what I am describing normal?

Pat

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

If the engine is running for only a brief time, make sure there are no air leaks in the fuel system otherwise the fuel pump may be sucking air, not fuel.

Pressure check fuel lines back to the tank, disconnect at tank and carb, plug end at tank at put a couple pounds of pressure on the fuel line and make sure it holds pressure. A lose hose clamp or maybe the o-ring in the water separator cup could introduce air into fuel line.

Grab a gas can and run a hose directly to fuel pump, this is a process of elimination (not this, check something else, keep going till discovering something that was overlooked).

You began this project b/c the boat wasn't running correctly, maybe the original problem still exists and you're getting closer to finding it. Of course you have to be careful not to create new problems, like dropping something into the carbs that might make it's way into the rotary valve. I find it unlikely you did but that doesn't mean you didn't.

Squeeling, like dry metal on metal may have come from a dry engine, one that doesn't have enough oil? I don't think it would be a bad idea to consider mixing up some fuel in a can at, say, 32:1 (1oz:1quart) and run a couple hoses, (supply and return) directly from the clean gas can with mixed fuel, to the carbs. Be aware of the fire hazards this might present and prepare accordingly. At least this way you'll know there's oil in the fuel, until you can eliminate other possibilities from air in the oil pump or something. Could be, the oil pump isn't working, or maybe a screw in the rotary valve, process of elimination.

Stop and think, remain calm, backtrack, double check, all that stuff. You've gotten this far, I think you're just overlooking something simple.

Once, after a project similar to this, a friend of mine placed his gasoline-soaked clothing into has clothes washer and it caught fire and blew up singing his face. Be careful and take your time, think things through, don't get flummoxed, take a break and squirt some oil in the carbs or cylinders. These engines just love small amounts of oil, like I like eating lunch.