96 GTI sudden stop, will not start

[kthomas8]

Newbie to the forum.

I have a 96 GTi purchased from a friend a few years back and have had no problems until yesterday. We both have taken great care and keep it sheltered when not in use and warm in the winter.

I put in the battery, checked the oil level, gassed it up and took it out for the first time this season. It started in the first 5 seconds and the water pump stream was flowing. I rode for over an hour with no problems, no red lights, or any strange behavior. On my way back to the ramp it just suddenly died, as if the kill switch had been pulled (it had not).

I took off the key and put it back on, the dials beeped and lit up as normal. The starter turns and is strong but the engine does not fire. Tank has gas and fuel was on.

The sudden stop makes me think something electrical, electronic or wiring.

Any ideas on where to start troubleshooting?

Thanks

 

[Kozerxp]

First u need to see if it's getting spark pull a plug hook it to the wire ground the plug and crank it and see if it has spark

 

[kthomas8]

Both plugs show spark.

 

[Kozerxp]

Mix some gas and oil in a bottle and put a cap full in each hole and see if it fires up then u will kno it's a fuel problem

 

[kthomas8]

Mix some gas and oil in a bottle and put a cap full in each hole and see if it fires up then u will kno it's a fuel problem

Put mixture in both cylinders. On first try, it sputtered a bit and kicked a splash of water from the exhaust. On second and third try it did not sputter. Tried a few more times. Seems to sputter a little here and there while starting, then a bit more as I let off the starter. Checked the battery voltage under starting load and it drops to 10.7

 

[Kozerxp]

Sounds like it will start with a little gas give it a fews or see if your getting feel to the carbs from the tank I think your ski has s line in the tank that fall off the sender and when the fuel level goes down you suck up air

 

[kthomas8]

I will check that. What is the symptom when the ecu or mpem goes bad?

 

[ski-d00]

check compression. I suspect there is a problem with one of your cylinders but I hope I am wrong.

mpems normally fail completely, but have seen a few intermittent. it doesn't sound like an mpem problem to me.

your fuel pickup is the standard seadoo baffle, not likely your problem, but could be the fuel selector switch but it doesn't sound like a fuel problem either because it should fire right up when you put gas directly in the cylinders.

dirty carb filters don't usually cause the problem the way you describe it.

 

[kthomas8]

Both plugs show spark.

My son said he thought the spark looked red, not white/blue. My eyes aren't good enoug to tell in the light. If true, could that have these symptoms?

 

[Kozerxp]

Any luck getting the ski going

 

[kthomas8]

Any luck getting the ski going

No. Took it to a shop. Awaiting diagnosis.

 

[kthomas8]

Dealer says rotor valve is stripped. Requires at least 1.5 hours to get in and see actual damage. Minimum 1 hour to replace valve and set timing. To get shavings out, 10 hours. If block is grooved, cannot be repaired. So, its coming home. We might tinker with it ourself or just part it. Probably looking for a new (used) ride at this point.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

you can get a new RV valve for pretty cheap. SBT has 'em as a full assembly. Pulling it may be an interesting challenge, but nothing that's impossible if you add a little ingenuity. I used a bolt, some washers, a short section of PVC pipe, and a chisel to take mine out. The big question here is WHY did the RV strip out? The valve had to encounter some strong resistance to just strip the brass gear like that. Does it sound funny when you crank? I had a wrist pin bearing fall apart and one of the needles fell down and stopped the valve solid, stripping the gear. I'd try and fix it, you could make it a father-son activity. That's how my dad got me into mechanics, which eventually led me to become an engineer. I still have that old GTS we first worked on, and it runs to this day

 

[Dr Honda]

Was it converted to Pre-mix?

Normally, if you can't do your own work... it's cheaper to just get a rebuilt engine, and drop it in.

 

[Bills86e]

Disconnect airbox, FA, cables & lines from carb. Remove the four bolts (13mm) on the RV cover, and pull off the entire unit (carb-intake-pump). Zip tie the RV shaft so the RV plate doen't slide off. Remove the PTO grey cover on motor rear and hand-turn the PTO Flywheel.
If the plate turns badly,, recommend splitting the cases to fix it!

 

[kthomas8]

It is a premix

 

[Bills86e]

Just so ya know, pulling the RV cover ect is something u'd do to get engine out thru the compartment anyway.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

and you should be able to put it back on without having to buy gaskets, the only paper gasket in that assembly is the carburetor. The RV cover just has an O-ring (that is probably still good).

 

[kthomas8]

So the service folks say the gear is stripped and once they get the parts off they should be able to tell why it stripped. Assuming no significant extra work is required to fix the thing that caused it to strip, total bill will be a little over $400.

My question is, since the gear stripped there will probably be shavings (they said nothing appears grooved at this point). I assume the shavings might be above and below the pistons. If this is correct, will the shavings in combustion chamber be expelled through the exhaust? Will the shavings below get carried by the cooling gas/oil into a filter, or into the combustion chamber and be expelled too? Or will they hang out and cause more damage?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

The gear they're talking about is inside its own chamber. The thick oil line running to and from your engine is for to provide lubrication to that gear chamber. The rotational motion of the engine circulates oil from your oil reservoir to the chamber and back to the reservoir. Having shavings in there may affect the new RV gear, and its ball bearing that is in the back of the crank-case. Not sure how serious this is or how to flush it out. If you get most of the shavings out, I think you should be okay, as your oil injection pump is protected by the oil filter...

 

[Bills86e]

Read post 15. Shards from a stripped gear can tear the rubber seals on the crank. If that happens you will also be buying a crankshaft.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

oooo.... yea, that WOULD be a problem :/ How would one go about flushing a system like this? and with what?

 

[kthomas8]

Mechanic says it could take 10 labor hours to hunt around and get out all the shavings. If the gear is in its own chamber, why would it take so long to do?

 

[kthomas8]

My bad. I misunderstood. It is not a premix. It still has the separate oil and gas tanks and mixes internally.

 

[kthomas8]

Is there no way to flush it out? I'm trying hard to hang on to this ski but unfortunately without being a mechanic it looks like its not going to happen.