'95 XP runs 15-30 minutes great, then dead in the water

[rlaeng]

Hey there gang, I have a '95 XP and a '97 GTI. Both have had stator issues. I live in the central California foothills and it takes about 4 hours (round trip) for me to deliver my sea doos to the nearest mechanic willing to work on them. Then, another 4 hours a month later to pick then up. The last time I picked them up, I made it home and discovered they had pinched the wires from the stator when they installed it (on the '95 XP). Too far to return and raise a stink so I ate the $700.00 for parts and labor. I have a nephew who works on his own bombardier snowmobiles and he has convinced me to man-up and work on them myself. I'm only spewing out this info. because I copied my post from the meet and greet forum and I figured you guys need to know where I'm coming from.

Now... my issue... I have replaced the stator (I didn't pinch the wires) and I replaced the fuel lines (but not the oil injector lines). I pulled the gas tank and made sure it's clean. The machine runs awesome for about 15-30 minutes then dies in the water. It has plenty of battery, the last time I ran it I had to use the starter and battery to push me back to the dock... about 500 yards. I was careful to not burn out the starter or melt the battery, I only mention this to re-inforce how much battery was left, I don't think it's a charging/battery issue. I get it home, recharge the battery, a small shot of ether and it fires and runs. My nephew thinks the timing is off (my work on the stator) and that it's overheating. He believes something in the computer is not allowing it to restart when hot.
My thoughts are rebuild the Carbs and/or replace the electronic module (expensive)...
any advice? I looked through the other posts for a few hours and didn't see a similar topic. If this has been answered already please let me know.

Thanks all... Rob

 

[bigJake]

If it is running great and then just suddenly shutting down, I would tend to think it is overheating. Does your buzzer work (ie does it beep when you put the lanyard on) that is usually the overheat alarm. Does water come out the pee hole? I would start with the simple stuff first and confirm there isn't a blockage in the cooling system. Flush all water lines. The water jackets could also be plugged with sand. I don't think you have a water control valve, on the 787's if that gets plugged with sand it will cause overheating.

 

[rlaeng]

Unfortunately none of the gauges or buzzers work. The trim doesn't work either, I intend to fix all of them after I get it running right. I'm not sure what the "pee hole" is, is it near the exhaust or on the side? I have pulled the craft too close to shore and sucked grass and dirt into the the intake more than once. I removed the debris by hand while it was still in the water and figured that was all I had to do. Does that same intake supply the water to cool the motor? I'll look around and try to figure out the cooling system.

On a seperate note... mom was from Lawrenceville, dad from Sharpsburg. Go Steelers, Pirates, and Pens. If that Vandelay Industries is in the latex buisiness, I know a guy who wants to your salesman.....

Thanks again for the advice...

 

[rlaeng]

Unfortunately none of the gauges or buzzers work. The trim doesn't work either, I intend to fix all of them after I get it running right. I'm not sure what the "pee hole" is, is it near the exhaust or on the side? I have pulled the craft too close to shore and sucked grass and dirt into the the intake more than once. I removed the debris by hand while it was still in the water and figured that was all I had to do. Does that same intake supply the water to cool the motor? I'll look around and try to figure out the cooling system.

On a seperate note... mom was from Lawrenceville, dad from Sharpsburg. Go Steelers, Pirates, and Pens. If that Vandelay Industries is in the latex buisiness, I know a guy who wants to your salesman.....

Thanks again for the advice...

 

[bigJake]

if your gauges and buzzer are not working, you could very well be overheating and not getting the alarm. The pee hole or telltale is a small hole on the rear of your hull below the seat where you should have a stream of water shooting out when running the ski either in the water or on the hose. If you are not seeing that you have a blockage in your cooling system. sometimes it may get clogged with sand and you can clear it with a piece of wire. Even if you do have a stream coming out the pee hole, that does not mean that you do not have a blockage somewhere in the system. Do a google search and you should find a site to download a Seadoo service manual for your specific ski for free. It will have a schematic that shows the flow of water thru the system.

Have you tried flushing the system by running on the hose?
If you are not familiar with the procedure
-hook up the hose to the hose adapter on the ski
- start the ski
- turn on the water
- turn off the water
- shut off the ski

if you turn on the water before starting the ski, you risk getting water in the cylinders and hydrolocking the engine. This is explained in the manual, as well as the procedure for dealing with hydrolock.

I would disconnect each individual water lines and make sure each is clear.

I worked in the Strip District for several years, which is adjacent to Lawrenceville. Steelers are the Sunday night game tonight so you'll get to watch

 

[Minnetonka4me]

In my experience when you overheat a motor they start to bog and stuff...they dont usually just die out. You can always crack the seat and put a hand on the cylinders.

I highly doubt you have any MPEM issues...they are dumb. The overheat sensor just makes the buzzer go off...its not connected to the computer.

Your description of the problem doesnt really fit my guess...I'm thinking needles and seats in the carb. When they leak they usually run for 5-10 mins then start to bog...or run till you shut it off then it wont start back up or pop and sputter.

 

[- BiRkS_]

what about the gas tank vents? Sounds like its running great then shuts off...could be a vaccum forming inside the tank? Easy way to check that is to run it until she shuts off, then undo the fuel cap and listen for a hiss. if you hear a hiss, your vents are stuck and need replacing. I've had this problem happen with small engines before and once with my '90 GT where a vent stuck shut and caused a vaccum.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

full tank of gas? is the on/off in the off position? that will run for a while, then not.

 

[bigJake]

full tank of gas? is the on/off in the off position? that will run for a while, then not.

my wife has done that, started out from the dock without turning the fuel on but it only runs for about a minute or so.

I also have a bad vent on one of my skis as Birks is suggesting, that I keep forgetting to replace. mine doesn't cause me any running problems but I agree it's certainly something to check.

 

[rlaeng]

Hey guys... thanks for all the help... it runs all day long now like a banshee on fire, I rebuilt the carbs and when I pulled them out the oil injector lines were so brittle they broke. They may have had holes/cracks and I think it was a temp issue (sharing the info in case you guys find somebody with a similar issue). Now it runs great all day long until I shut it off. When I restart it it seems to be flooded. Full throttle for about 20-30 seconds and it pops a few times, when it pops I reduce to 1/4 throttle and runs like crap for short while (10-15 seconds) then it's back to a banshee with a burnin' butthole.... I understand automobile carborators but the systems I'm used to lead me to think it's a float stuck in the carb... this ain't got no bowl or float......... lil' help please

p.s. idles ok but stalls after about a minute if that indicates anything....

 

[JJinSC]

It sounds like you used after market kits. Re-do the rebuild with genuine mikuni kits. The after market kits are notorious for causing the symptoms you are describing.

 

[Popsslowdog]

Raieng, good luck. Iam new to pwc's and got two '94's last year. I did the complete fuel system clean, fuel line replace, carb rebuild on both skis. I used all mikuni and seadoo parts. One ski worked super from the first fire up with a couple tweaks to the low speed screw. The, other, a n XP, gave the exact same symptoms as you describe.

Read Bills86 sticky in this section and the how to tech section on carburetor tuning. Something to do with how the pto carb sees the mag carb-pop off pressures etc. worked for me. I also had to go ahead and replace the vent check valves and lines on the xp that I did not do first go round. You are almost there.

OOPs! Now I am not sure if this is a current issue-or not. After I closed, I noticed your original thread was last year. I only noticed at first that your last post was today and assumed it to be a current problem for you. If not So Sorry, please excuse. Pops

 

[rlaeng]

Yes pops... current problem (june 2012) I just continued on an old thread because folks are so helpful and quick to reply.

JJ I used Mikuni kits on both carbs. I looked at the left over parts and found a clear plastic peice the same dimensions as the diaphram, should it be between the diaphram and the cover?

 

[brock1]

ummm yes that needs to be there ...you probubly missed it it goes on the side where you pulse line hooks up it needs to be there

 

[rlaeng]

that's good news, I pull the carb and insert the peice, hopefully this will be the fix that's been dodging me........

I appreciate the reply...........

 

[Popsslowdog]

Hey Rob, Pops again. Like I said I am new to this whole PWC thing, so I have to read everything I can find before I start turning wrenches. These other guys on here will know a lot more than I do, so pay attention to them.

I went out and dug out my left over parts from the carb rebuilds I did last year on my '94's. I still have two of the clear plastic pieces unused in my stuff. So I looked at the instructions that came with the kits, and then I reread the Mikuni Manual, and I looked back at the 94 Seadoo shop manual.The Mikuni information says that the clear plastic diaphagms are not used on the Super BN 38 carbs. I think that my carbs did not have that configuration when I took them apart, so I followed the instructions for the Super BN 38's.

If you try those in your '95 and they don't work for you, you might read Bills86e 's 4-27-2011 Sticky on tuning Carburetors that is in the 2 stroke PWC section. Late in that sticky he gives some websites on where you can get the different manuals, even though you are not a premium member. I am pretty sure I did not use the clear plastic diaphragms and the two enclosing gaskets, and I remember having the same question(s) about whether I should.

Mine worked out great on the GTX and eventually on the XP after rereading, retuning AND after changing the two fuel system check valves and their hoses. Bonsai now. Later and good luck.

 

[rlaeng]

I can't express my appreciation... you guys are great. working on these at my leisure is much better than the 1.5 hour drive to drop them off with a questionable merchant, then the return trip to pick them up... but that's enough about my frustration with the growing gas prices..... I've been digging through the forums and found a few threads that have been helpful but they're a bit advanced for me.. I've made some assumptions and need some validation. What the forums refer to as the PTO carb is the rear carb (closest to the rear of the craft)? I downloaded the manual and the exploded version of the 717 carb system (I confirmed that I have the 717 engine w/ dual carb) only shows the "pto"carb intact as an image in the lower left corner but it's not exploded. I think this is the carb missing th plastic plate/insert mentioned above. I also read through the carb adjustment thread after rebuild but I don't know which screw is high jet, low jet, and then it talked about a whole bunch of adjustments that sent me to fridge looking for a beer (confused before the cervesa and frustrated after 3-4 that I found). I hate to be needy but... 'lil more help?