89 580-Ticking Grinding Noise????

[89doo]

Just bought this.



Seller said it was working fine this spring and then stopped running.

He played dumb and said didnt know at all what was wrong.

Battery was removed when I checked it out, said it was dead. Got it cheap enough and with a good trailer figured it was worth a chance.

Got it home, hooked up a good battery and went to turn it over. Has spark but just sounds terrible turning over:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/duwem/media/IMG_1729_zps69974cea.mp4.html


Thoughts? Both pistons are going up and down and had compression when I put my finger over the sparkplug hole.

I know lawnmower engines very well, but am a jet ski newbie.

 

[Crofoot50]

Just bought this.

View attachment 21595

Seller said it was working fine this spring and then stopped running.

He played dumb and said didnt know at all what was wrong.

Battery was removed when I checked it out, said it was dead. Got it cheap enough and with a good trailer figured it was worth a chance.

Got it home, hooked up a good battery and went to turn it over. Has spark but just sounds terrible turning over:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/duwem/media/IMG_1729_zps69974cea.mp4.html


Thoughts? Both pistons are going up and down and had compression when I put my finger over the sparkplug hole.

I know lawnmower engines very well, but am a jet ski newbie.

Post a video of you cranking it over, the pbucket link you have does not work. Welcome to the forum. Cool Old School Seadoo

 

[LouDoo]

It sounds to me that you have a bad starter bendix. Also disconnect the spark plugs and ground the spark plug leads, it's a bad idea to leave them like you have them.

Lou

 

[89doo]

It sounds to me that you have a bad starter bendix. Also disconnect the spark plugs and ground the spark plug leads, it's a bad idea to leave them like you have them.

Lou

How do I ground them, attach them to something?

Here is another shot at the video, the other one may have been password locked:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/duwem/media/Misc/IMG_1729_zps69974cea.mp4.html

I was wondering if it was just the starter gear interacting with the flywheel.

There is some ratching going on when I rotate it by hand too with the plugs out...

 

[89doo]

Found a little more info. Will pull the cover off and take a look at the starter/ring gear, but this sounds like it could be the culprit:



A stripped rotary gear will sound like it is coming from the magneto cover. I have made that mistake twice in the past.

It will sound like a baseball card in the spokes of a bicycle wheel when you try to start it.

 

[Strizzo]

Found a little more info. Will pull the cover off and take a look at the starter/ring gear, but this sounds like it could be the culprit:



A stripped rotary gear will sound like it is coming from the magneto cover. I have made that mistake twice in the past.

It will sound like a baseball card in the spokes of a bicycle wheel when you try to start it.

that could be it, definitely sounds like a stripped gear, the bendix when they're worn sound more like an old chevy, or maybe more familiar to you, an old electric start lawn tractor. if you pull the carb off and look into the ports while turning the engine over, there should be a valve spinning inside that covers and uncovers the ports. you'll probably find something stuck in it if the brass gear is indeed stripped.

if the gear is stripped, a replacement engine from SBT is cheap and can be had with a 1 or 2 year warranty.

 

[89doo]

Is there a procedure for removing the valve to replace the gear. I have found some on retiming, but not actually removing the parts. I do have the factory service manual, but sometimes its easier with pictures and descriptions from someone that has done it.

Will take a look at the starter first, then look at pulling the carb to see if the valve is spinning.

 

[Strizzo]

you can pull the rotary shaft without taking the motor completely apart, but there is a high chance that the brass gear on the crankshaft is also stripped, and that there are brass shavings inside the motor. the smart choice at this point is a rebuilt motor, you won't save much if anything by buying a rebuild kit and rebuilding yourself compared to an SBT rebuild which will come with a no-fault warranty. that is, if you want to keep the ski, otherwise parting out the ski and keeping/selling the trailer might be the easiest course of action at this point, since you don't yet know what other trouble could be lurking with the ski.

 

[89doo]

Ya, hoping to spend under $100 on this thing to have it running.

Any more than that I should just buy a newer one I know runs good.

Or just not have a jetski, was not shoping for one, just saw this one along the road for cheap and decided to grab it.

 

[Crofoot50]

Just bought this.

View attachment 21595

Seller said it was working fine this spring and then stopped running.

He played dumb and said didnt know at all what was wrong.

Battery was removed when I checked it out, said it was dead. Got it cheap enough and with a good trailer figured it was worth a chance.

Got it home, hooked up a good battery and went to turn it over. Has spark but just sounds terrible turning over:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/duwem/media/IMG_1729_zps69974cea.mp4.html


Thoughts? Both pistons are going up and down and had compression when I put my finger over the sparkplug hole.

I know lawnmower engines very well, but am a jet ski newbie.

Sorry I learn my lesson when I clicked on the link for the video it took me to a photo bucket mobile site when I view the full website I was able to watch your video and hear the noise clearly

 

[89doo]

Dug into it more. Pulled the flywheel end cover off and made sure the starter was disengaged and then spun the engine over by hand with a wrench. Definitly in the engine. Thinking rotary valve gear/plate or bearing. Took another video, it gets resistance and clicks every 15-30 degrees of rotation:

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/duwem/media/IMG_1730_zps6b77c4b6.mp4.html

Any new thoughts?

 

[89doo]

Tore into it.

Rotary valve was stuck and the clicking noise was the internal drive gear.

Valve is bent, and both sides are chewed up. Block has a chunk out of it.

I could replace the valve and get a used outer half, but what about the block? Can I just clean up any raised material and leave the void and run it, or would it need to be welded and then machined flat?

Also there is still one spot spinning the crank where it hangs up and the gear ratchets. How much has to come apart to get the rotary shaft out? Service manual shows the block split and the crank out and the shaft removing last.

Can I pull the bottom half of the block off and then drop the crank down enough for the rotary shaft to come out ? Need a puller for it right? Do I need new shaft seals and stuff on reassembly to put the bottom half of the block back on?

Here are pictures. No idea HOW it happened. Seems like something would have got in there, but there is a mesh (i'm guessing spark arrestor) screen in the intake above the carb so dont know how something would have entered???

 

[Strizzo]

that motor is old enough to drink, and probably not worth half-measures at this point. usually what happens is one of the bolts above the carb vibrate loose and make their way through the butterflies into the rotary valve. if they make it through the first time, the screw will bounce around inside the case until it gets pitched back out into the rotary valve again.

the rotary shaft comes out with a puller, and the gear on the crank will be stripped as well, so the whole motor has to come apart. go to shopsbt.com and price out a new rotary shaft, valve, rotary valve cover, and crankshaft and top end rebuild kits. i am certain it is easier to just get the short block rather than doing a DIY rebuild

195 crank
199 top end kit
100 RV cover
89 RV shaft assembly
29 132* rotary valve
69 rebuild gasket kit

681 Total plus shipping, plus you have to DIY the rebuild, and that assumes your cylinders are useable, if they're not, then the top end cylinder exchange would be 295, bringing the total to 777 plus shipping.

vs.

495 standard engine
100 RV cover
29 132* rotary valve
29 install gasket kit
653 total plus shipping, and the motor comes with a 1 year no-fault warranty in case anything was done wrong in the rebuilding process.

there are some additional costs that will be the same regardless of which way you go, you'll need to rebuild the carb, kits or mail order would be 50-100 bucks or so, you'll need an alignment tool and shims to setup the new/rebuilt motor at about 150 total if you rent the tool, more if you keep it after. fuel lines and other stuff, budget about another 100. best case, the jet pump is in good shape and you can get away with changing the wear ring and replacing the gear oil. otherwise dr hondas tools are 69 plus a rebuild kit for 49.

in the end you'll probably be into the ski for about a grand or more depending on what you paid, and that ski running and ready to go is worth about 800 in most places.

 

[89doo]

Lota info thanks. Like I said, looking to stick about 100 into repairs, otherwise I will just sell it and move on without a jet ski like I was last week (already have it listed as is).

Isnt the gear on the crankshaft steel and the one on the rotary valve bronze? Or are they both bronze? Never tore one apart, just guessing?

 

[Strizzo]

yes the gear on the crank is harder than the brass on the RV shaft, but most of the time when the rotary valve eats a screw, the gear gets damaged or at least shifted on the crankshaft. the crankshaft is pressed together on these engines so its not as easy as it seems to go in and fix stuff unless you have a shop press and a few other specialty tools to get it done.