787 RFI Another Oil In Cylinder question

[Broosedamoose67]

I'm sorry if this has already been answered but I couldn't find it. I'm new to ski's so it may seem like a dumb question but I need the answer. I was able to find out why oil is getting into one of the cylinders by searching and reading and I know I either need to rebuild the engine or buy a new/rebuilt one but my question is this: Can the oil line just be clamped off and then use pre-mixed fuel instead until I can afford to fix it right? I have a 2002 GTX RFI DI 2-Stroke.

 

[Broosedamoose67]

I called a SeaDoo shop and asked them about it and was told it can't be done with my ski. He said that using oil in the fuel will gum up the injectors real fast. He suggested I either get another engine or sell it. Rebuilding it would cost as much if not more than a new engine. I asked him how much it would be and he said the ski isn't really worth fixing due to all the problems they had. Sucks because I just put in a new jet pump, wear ring and prop.

 

[mikidymac]

On a DI ski there is no rotary valve to leak oil in which is the common cause on these and is probably what you are reading. Also no oil line to clamp off on yours.

DO NOT go premix on a DI ski, the bottom end will get no lubrication at all.

Probably the cause of your oil flooding on your DI is the oil injection pump leaking.

 

[Broosedamoose67]

On a DI ski there is no rotary valve to leak oil in which is the common cause on these and is probably what you are reading. Also no oil line to clamp off on yours.

DO NOT go premix on a DI ski, the bottom end will get no lubrication at all.

Probably the cause of your oil flooding on your DI is the oil injection pump leaking.

Oh, really? I guess I was reading the wrong information. I was just told by someone (who works on nothing but SeaDoo) that it was the seal and the case had to be opened up to fix it. That's why it's so expensive to fix. He didn't mention the injection pump. I know this guy pretty good so I know he's not trying to screw me but he could be wrong! If it's the injection pump, wouldn't both cylinders fill with oil? Only the front cylinder is filling with oil. I'd like to bring it somewhere else for a second opinion but there isn't anyone around here that will work on it! The shop I called won't even look at it for me! Thank you for helping me out!

 

[tobytd]

There it is “only the front cylinder is filling with oil“
Looks like Mikidy called it.
pull the oil pump, clean it up. Let it sit over a dry paper towel.
When you replace the pump replace the 3/32 tygon oil lines and test the oil checks

 

[Broosedamoose67]

OK, thanks for the info. It will be awesome if this fixes the problem! Now I just need to figure out where the pump is and pull it out. I'm very good with fixing cars but I don't know much about these machines. Time to get a shop manual.

 

[Spider4real]

2002 SeaDoo GTX DI, GTX 4-TEC Shop Manual- FREE PDF Download!

 

[Broosedamoose67]

2002 SeaDoo GTX DI, GTX 4-TEC Shop Manual- FREE PDF Download!

Thanks but I need volume 1. I have a 2002 GTX RFI DI. I may not have listed it correctly because I put DI. I was told it was Direct Injection. The decal says GTXrfi. Sorry if I got it wrong!

 

[Broosedamoose67]

I just talked to the guy who looked at it for me and he said I have the Rotax 787 RFI RAVE engine. My bad! Sorry about the confusion. I'm sure it makes a big difference!

 

[burtshaver2021]

Yes, the 787,does have the rotary valve cavity that is filled with oil. Most will just instal a shut off valve in the line form the bottom of the oil tank that goes to the rotary valve, just don’t forget to open that valve before you ride. Maybe hang your DESS key in the engine compartment by the valve so there’s no way to forget. Also make sure to take the plugs out and ground them and roll the engine over if your ever unsure if there could be oil in there, otherwise could cause severe engine damage like a bent rod.

 

[burtshaver2021]

How long was it sitting before you noticed the oil? If it was sitting a long time the center seal may not be leaking to badly. I have a machine that I had bought to fix 95 XP, it had sat here at my place for about a year before I got around to looking at it. It was full of oil, once I got it working I took the plugs out, grounded the plug wires and cranked all the oil out of it, ran fine all summer. For the first few trips out I would take the plugs out and roll it over but no oil came out and I just forgot about it. Not saying yours will be the same, but it’s definitely a possibility

 

[Broosedamoose67]

I used it all summer without an issue. Then it sat for about six weeks until I went to winterize it. I went to start it and it just “clicked”. I thought the battery had run down so I pulled it out and charged it. I tried starting it again but same results. I took it to a guy who works on these and he’s the one who told me it was a seal in the engine that was leaking. He said it is leaking pretty good because he pumped out the cylinder and in a matter of days it was full of oil again. He advised me to sell it and buy a newer ski. It’s in really good condition though and it ran all summer. His point was that it has over 200 hours on it and it’s gonna be expensive to fix. The thing is, I already have $4,500 invested in it between the purchase price and the work I’ve had done to it! I would lose a lot of money selling as is. The shut off valve sounds like a good temporary fix but all it takes is to forget one time and it’s over! So I’m not sure what to do.

 

[burtshaver2021]

I used it all summer without an issue. Then it sat for about six weeks until I went to winterize it. I went to start it and it just “clicked”. I thought the battery had run down so I pulled it out and charged it. I tried starting it again but same results. I took it to a guy who works on these and he’s the one who told me it was a seal in the engine that was leaking. He said it is leaking pretty good because he pumped out the cylinder and in a matter of days it was full of oil again. He advised me to sell it and buy a newer ski. It’s in really good condition though and it ran all summer. His point was that it has over 200 hours on it and it’s gonna be expensive to fix. The thing is, I already have $4,500 invested in it between the purchase price and the work I’ve had done to it! I would lose a lot of money selling as is. The shut off valve sounds like a good temporary fix but all it takes is to forget one time and it’s over! So I’m not sure what to do.

Yea, that is leaking fairly quickly. Let’s see what everyone else has to say. I’ve never had one that leaks that bad. Only thing I can say, is that, the extra oil leaking past the seal won’t hurt anything, the only time any damage could occur is possibly trying to start it with a crank full of oil.

 

[Grast5150]

Short Answer is NO. DI operated different than Carb models. If your unit does have over 200 hours, It is time for a rebuild anyways. This would include boring the cylinder, new or rebuild crankshaft, and new/rebuilt counter balance shaft. Now as to your issue, I think the most simple answer is the oil check valve which is what the oil pump feeds is damaged or wore out. This allows more oil to be injected into the base of the cylinder than expected. These run about 30 bucks but the pain the butt is you will have to pull the engine to reach for replacement. Replacement is not hard just difficult to reach. This leads to your other issue which time on engine. I personally would watch some Youtube, mark every hose, and just pull the engine. At that point, you can run the gamble that crankshaft and counter balance are fine and then just replace the oil check valve (Check Valve 420956510 OR 420956511) and send the top head off for boring ($300-400). Then put the top end back together, reinstall engine and hope for the best. Sea-Doo recommends crankshaft and counter balance to be rebuilt every 200 hours which is every 5 Years with 40 average hours per year. There are lots of videos on Youtube on how to rebuild GTX DI engines. NOTE: They basically the same as 951/947 carb models except for air compressor and fuel rail and a few odds and ends but the disassembly and reassemble are mostly the same. I have done a complete rebuild on the 2 GTX DI which I own about 3 times now. OR sell the unit as is (1200 - 2200 depending on time of year) or for parts (2000 if you part out). Your choice but your engine is due for a rebuild.

 

[Grast5150]

Yea, that is leaking fairly quickly. Let’s see what everyone else has to say. I’ve never had one that leaks that bad. Only thing I can say, is that, the extra oil leaking past the seal won’t hurt anything, the only time any damage could occur is possibly trying to start it with a crank full of oil.

I used it all summer without an issue. Then it sat for about six weeks until I went to winterize it. I went to start it and it just “clicked”. I thought the battery had run down so I pulled it out and charged it. I tried starting it again but same results. I took it to a guy who works on these and he’s the one who told me it was a seal in the engine that was leaking. He said it is leaking pretty good because he pumped out the cylinder and in a matter of days it was full of oil again. He advised me to sell it and buy a newer ski. It’s in really good condition though and it ran all summer. His point was that it has over 200 hours on it and it’s gonna be expensive to fix. The thing is, I already have $4,500 invested in it between the purchase price and the work I’ve had done to it! I would lose a lot of money selling as is. The shut off valve sounds like a good temporary fix but all it takes is to forget one time and it’s over! So I’m not sure what to do.

I posted a response below. That is lot of money invested. So if you are game, I think the issue is the oil check valve and NOT THE PUMP. The pump is working as intended but the oil check valve which there are 3 ; 1 in each cylinder and the air compressor. The oil check valve should be able to handle 15 psi of oil pressure, this allows the correct amount of oil to be injected. If one of the valves is blown or leaking, that means the other cylinder and air compressor are being starved of oil and the rest of the oil is being dumped into the crankcase. So if you do nothing else, pull the engine as only way to replace the oil valves, replace all three unless you want to rig up a pressure test, and then reinstall engine. If your engine does have more than 200 hours, it is time for a rebuild anyways and I would suggest making the investment which I place at 150 in tools and probably $900 is services and Parts (bore head and new cylinders, rebuilt crankshaft, and rebuilt counter balance) to get engine ready for reinstallation. Later.

 

[Broosedamoose67]

I think I'm just going to sell it to someone who can either do the rebuild or wants to have it done. I no longer have the tools or the space to mess whith it. The ski is super clean and in great shape with a brand new trailer. I won't get my money back but I should be able to get a decent down payment on another, newer, one. At least it lasted the summer for me.

 

[burtshaver2021]

I think I'm just going to sell it to someone who can either do the rebuild or wants to have it done. I no longer have the tools or the space to mess whith it. The ski is super clean and in great shape with a brand new trailer. I won't get my money back but I should be able to get a decent down payment on another, newer, one. At least it lasted the summer for me.

I think it would really be worth your time to test the rotary valve cavity. This is a very simple test where You block the return line nipple that goes from the rotary valve cavity to the top of the oil tank, just take the hose off and plug that fitting and then put 5 pounds of air pressure to the cavity at the fitting below the intake. If it doesn’t hold the 5 pounds for 8 minutes then one of those inner crank seals is leaking. Or forget the pressure test and just instal a 3.00 shut off valve in the line feeding the rotary valve, crank all the oil out of the crankcase and see if it fills back up after sitting with the valve shut off. I’ve heard of people running it like this for many years. The 787 crankshafts are pretty durable. I would at least instal this valve,, so you can sell it in a running condition otherwise your going to get a bunch of super low ball offers. Nothing to lose except 10 minutes and 3.00

 

[Grast5150]

I think it would really be worth your time to test the rotary valve cavity. This is a very simple test where You block the return line nipple that goes from the rotary valve cavity to the top of the oil tank, just take the hose off and plug that fitting and then put 5 pounds of air pressure to the cavity at the fitting below the intake. If it doesn’t hold the 5 pounds for 8 minutes then one of those inner crank seals is leaking. Or forget the pressure test and just instal a 3.00 shut off valve in the line feeding the rotary valve, crank all the oil out of the crankcase and see if it fills back up after sitting with the valve shut off. I’ve heard of people running it like this for many years. The 787 crankshafts are pretty durable. I would at least instal this valve,, so you can sell it in a running condition otherwise your going to get a bunch of super low ball offers. Nothing to lose except 10 minutes and 3.00

Burt, This ski has 951 DI engine and not a 787. It does not have a rotary valve. The 951 DI uses two Rave valves on in the inlet and fuel injection.

 

[burtshaver2021]

Burt, This ski has 951 DI engine and not a 787. It does not have a rotary valve. The 951 DI uses two Rave valves on in the inlet and fuel injection.

OP did say in his first few posts that it was a DI but then found out from his mechanic that it is actually a 787 RFI

 

[Broosedamoose67]

Yes, I put DI in my original post because it's Direct Injection; my bad. It's not a GTX DI but a GTX RFI with the 787 ROTAX engine. I did find a rebuilt on eBay for $699. Comes with a no fault warranty. Just need to find someone willing to swap it out for me. I can't do it anymore because the damn arthritis is so bad in my fingers and back.

787 ROTAX Engine

 

[Broosedamoose67]

I think it would really be worth your time to test the rotary valve cavity. This is a very simple test where You block the return line nipple that goes from the rotary valve cavity to the top of the oil tank, just take the hose off and plug that fitting and then put 5 pounds of air pressure to the cavity at the fitting below the intake. If it doesn’t hold the 5 pounds for 8 minutes then one of those inner crank seals is leaking. Or forget the pressure test and just instal a 3.00 shut off valve in the line feeding the rotary valve, crank all the oil out of the crankcase and see if it fills back up after sitting with the valve shut off. I’ve heard of people running it like this for many years. The 787 crankshafts are pretty durable. I would at least instal this valve,, so you can sell it in a running condition otherwise your going to get a bunch of super low ball offers. Nothing to lose except 10 minutes and 3.00

I am going to take your advice and put in the shut-off valve. At least it will be runnable that way. I tried searching the manual but I can't seem to find what size tubing it is. Any idea what size it is or what size valve to get?

 

[burtshaver2021]

I am going to take your advice and put in the shut-off valve. At least it will be runnable that way. I tried searching the manual but I can't seem to find what size tubing it is. Any idea what size it is or what size valve to get?

The hose has a 12mm inner diameter, @etemplet has a link for the shut off valves on amazon. Maybe he will see this and post that link, but any simple shut off valve should work, just look for one that has a slightly smaller OD than 12mm, I would order at least 2 different sizes that you think you will work, they are not expensive

 

[burtshaver2021]

These are the ones @etemplet uses, I’ve never had a machine with bad enough inner crank seals to need one but like I mentioned in last post, if it fits nicely in the hose and shuts off, your good.

 

[etemplet]

View attachment 64752These are the ones @etemplet uses, I’ve never had a machine with bad enough inner crank seals to need one but like I mentioned in last post, if it fits nicely in the hose and shuts off, your good.

I had several. Just make sure you turn them ON.

 

[Broosedamoose67]

Any chance you have a link to them?
I did find this one on Amazon: Valve Looks like it's a 1/4" valve.