787 gsx motor problems...

[blown1993]

Im hoping one of you will have an idea here!

So on my 1997 gsx with the 787, I was replacing the cylinder head cover due to a broken water port, and several of the cylinder head bolts broke. I took the motor out, had a machine shop get the broken bolts out, they said once the cylinder head came off, the bolts came right out. So I put all new orings between the cylinder and head, new orings between the head and head cover, new head cover, changed the fuel line to black, decided to check out the rave valves and found a broken one, Jess is sending me a new one. Also replaced the battery/motor ground wire because the connector came off.

The motor started fine before all of this, even with the broken rave valve. So I just got it all put back together, I know i tilted the motor each way while it was out, and when putting it in. The problem I have now is, with the spark plugs out it turns over fine, if I put a finger in one of the spark plug holes, it loses alot of its cranking power. When I put the spark plugs in, it wont turn over. It tries to but just doesnt have the power to turn over. Its almost like its hydrolocked. The very first time I tried starting it, it almost started, it backfired kind of and spewed out some grayish thick stuff out the exhaust, then started doing the above. I thought maybe the drive shaft wasnt aligned well so i loosened the motor mount bolts but this didnt help. I know it has fuel because the strainer is full and I put fuel manually in the cylinder.

Im lost as to what might of happened, or am I overlooking something.

any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[seadoo/skidoo]

Hi there blown1993. I think you still have a starting issue. if you put a new battery in it maybe it's not charged enough? maybe the starter is no good. either way something is making it crank over weak

Nathan

 

[blown1993]

it was fine before doing this work though... I had the charger hooked up to it while trying to start it.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

I'm going to throw out some ideas here, let us know what you did of these.

Maybe the pump bearing is going bad.

Did you align the motor correctly using the right tool??????

Are all grounds tight and clean?

timed correctly??

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Charger running while trying to start it is a NO-NO. What ampage was the charger set at while doing this?

Check all fuses.

 

[LouDoo]

I'm afraid this is not good news, that grayish stuff is water and oil. The proper procedure for starting a ski on a hose is: Start the ski, turn on the water, turn off the water, turn off the ski. Did you follow this procedure?

While you need to get the water out, I wouldn't start it with a broken rave valve. Remove the rave valve, remove the spark plugs, ground the boots, cover the spark plug holes with a rag, and turn it over.

Put the plugs back in and see if it will run for a couple of minutes, no water. Spray some fogging oil down the cylinders. If you are successful get a compression reading and let us know.

Lou

 

[blown1993]

not sure about the bearing... it was fine before this motor catastrophe. I have the motor loose so i wouldnt think its an alignment issue. I replaced the ground wire, its cleaner than it was! It turns over without the plugs. The charger was on the 2A setting. Timing shouldnt have changed because it was just the head and headcover.

I never turned the water on, i was waiting for it to start then was going to turn it on. It made one squirt of grayish stuff and kind of a backfire. I turned it over a bunch with the plugs out, no water came out. Once I put the plugs in, it seems like it is "locked".

I do know that when I connected the oil line below the carbs, I forgot to attach the one on the other side that goes back to the top of the oil tank and lost a gallon of oil in the hull! could this have filled the crank area up tight?

im thinking about pulling the drive shaft out and trying it then.

what would happen with the broken rave valve? I started it before with it like this, not knowing it was broke! I just got these!

I rememeber on the 96 xp there was a "hydrolock" drain screw, does this 97 787 gsx motor have this?

it tried to start the very first time i tried. not anymore!

 

[LouDoo]

Yes there is a drain on the 787, it's open all the time unless it has been pinched off when the ski was winterized. You can remove the Rave valve to try to start the ski, if you leave the valve in there it could fracture and lock up the motor. The ski will run but not run well.

While it's not recommended I don't think you caused any damage with the charger on the 2A setting.

I don't think pulling the drive shaft will tell anything, obviously the engine is turning over so nothing is seized. You'll need to buy, beg, or borrow and alignment tool when the cause is determined.

I'm thinking you've got leaking crank seals, but I have no explanation for the water. Try PM'ing Dr Honda, he's forgotten more about this stuff than most (including myself), has ever known. Just ask him to take a look at this thread.

Lou

 

[blown1993]

Now that I think about it, I did move the pistons by hand, does this mean it needs timed? I thought only if the rotary valve is removed.


Would a lawn/garden ground wire from Walmart matter?

Its confusing that it was fine before all of this.

 

[LouDoo]

You can't get the motor out of time unless the rotary valve was removed. I don't think the ground wire from Walmart is causing any problems, unless its a lesser gauge.

Lou

 

[blown1993]

I read some other forums where people had the same exact problem, replacing the ground wire with a lawn/garden one. Others have said its too large. Should the size of the ground wire matter?

Also, that ground wire, it goes from the battery to the lower part by the starter. Is this grounding the starter? Or grounding the battery? Does this have to hook to there or can it go to a motor mount?

 

[Minnetonka4me]

It can go anywhere...and any wire is fine.

I can pretty much guarantee its a starter or a battery and I would be surprised if 2a charger would allow it to crank.

 

[CReynoldsMIZ]

Im in definite agreement with a battery/ starter issue. It takes more effort for the battery to turn over a motor with compression rather than one with none (pulling out spark plugs). charge it up, and take it to an auto store to have it load tested. That is the first place to start

 

[blown1993]

You guys were right. I took the new dry cell out of the other ski, put it in, started right up. Going to hook some water up!

Thanks everyone!

The experts always know best!