2005 Rxt Won’t start after running for a while

[Robert215]

So I have a 2005 RXT. Last week ran it 20 miles and a couple hours. Got home. Wanted to go back on for a evening ride and it would try to start but just couldn’t. Checked battery just to eliminate that. Battery was good. So changed for new plugs and now it turns on. Took it about 20 miles shut it on and off out there and it’s perfect. Next day I try to start it, it wouldn’t start. Pulled plugs and the 3rd cylinder plug was fouled. Replace new plugs and still won’t start now. Switched one of the coils from my gtx to the 3rd cylinder coil to see if it was a coil and it still wouldn’t start.I just don’t know what to think could be wrong with it or where to start... any help would be really appreciated!

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Do you get the two chirps when you apply the key? Have you checked for codes? (put on lanyard and hit SET 5x) What's your voltage AS you're cranking (when it will not start)? Have you tested for spark when it doesn't start? You're not holding the throttle open when you try to start, are you? This also prevents engine from starting (diagnostic feature).

 

[Robert215]

Yes I get 2 chirps. I don’t see anything when I hit set 5x. Cranking volts are good. Replaced battery last week. Not holding throttle either. I have to check for spark in that 3rd cylinder. It really does sound like it wants to start but it just can’t fuly turn over. Could this be a possible injector issue?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Sure, it could, but it would be a one-off issue. I've never heard of injector issues on 4tecs before. First time for everything I suppose. You could rig up some sort of bench-test: get a piece of plywood, drill some holes in it: 3 for injectors, and a few for the bolts to hold the injectors to the rail. Find a connector for the injectors to apply 12v across the terminals and test each one after your fuel pump has built up pressure. It will turn on as soon as you put the key on. You can repeat this test with the engine harness hooked up to them while cranking and see how they spray.

Keep in mind this is really dangerous, as you'll have fuel mist all over the place. The smallest spark could ruin your day. Keep a fire extinguisher nearby, and be mindful of any spark sources.

I would suspect the fuel pump first. I'd test the fuel pressure on it.

 

[Robert215]

Yeah I think all fuel issues could be eliminated. I got it to start yesterday after 15 try’s. And once it starts running it will turn on and off like it should. Gave it some WOT yesterday drove it 20 miles and not a single issue. So the issue has been narrow down to a cold start? Possibly starter relay?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Does it crank slowly or slower when it's cold? You could test the coils with a spark tester from Advance Auto. You leave your plug in, take the coil out and plug the tester in. Connect the tester clip to ground and crank the motor. You can separate the electrodes to see how long you can get the spark. I believe you should still get good spark at an inch apart. At least my 2 stroke ski can spark at that wide a gap. You can also see if the sparks are not constant, like if it's missing sometimes. The tester is cheap and easy to use. Good tool to have IMO.

 

[Robert215]

Well I took the coils from GTX and swapped them and got the same result. It cranks normal all the time. It jus can’t start. I took it out of the water Monday and Tuesday morning if history would repeat itself it wouldn’t turn on but it turned right on... lol. I got no idea at this point. I ordered a starter relay so I’m just going to install that and just keep working at it

 

[Chester]

It's not the starter relay. It wouldn't turn over if it failed. You said it cranks normally.

Chester

 

[Chester]

Check for codes.

Chester

 

[Robert215]

Yeah it cranks normal. Like I’ve said it took a good 15 times for it to start. And each time it got stronger and stronger. The really was only like 15$. Is just have it around. But as of now cold it turns on and off like it should. But who knows how long that will last for

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

I would check the fuel pump and replace the strainers. Sounds like they could be clogged, or maybe you've got some water in the tank.

 

[AircraftDoc]

Supercharged..... Did you add oil? If you added too much, (3/4 mark is the highest level you want) oil gets in the through the SC and fouls the plugs. That might be why when changed plugs it ran great for a while. Pull off the hose from the supercharger to the throttle body. If you have oil in the hose, clean it out and along with plugs. Suck out oil until level is lower than full mark.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

Supercharged..... Did you add oil? If you added too much, (3/4 mark is the highest level you want) oil gets in the through the SC and fouls the plugs. That might be why when changed plugs it ran great for a while. Pull off the hose from the supercharger to the throttle body. If you have oil in the hose, clean it out and along with plugs. Suck out oil until level is lower than full mark.

I've had oil in my hose before, I thought it was from a leaking oil seal in the SC. I don't think I ever had my oil level too full, but the oil check procedure is so damn tricky on these engines, I never feel confident that I know exactly where it sits...

 

[XP 787]

Next time it doesn't start disconnect then reconnect DESS key. You should hear the fuel pump prime.

 

[Robert215]

I tryed everything you guys mentioned and still had no luck... so I have some bad news. I replaced the plugs with old plugs again and it turned on. And for the hell of it I checked the dip stick. And what do you know it was milky. So now I know water is leaking somewhere and is causing the plugs to get wet and why it won’t start. And it’s mixing water and oil somehow.. So I’m pretty certain it’s the head gaskets. I had it out all day yesterday and ran it hard and it ran like the devil. So I don’t think it’s blown cause I had it up to 8k rpms steadily and no buzzers or nothing. It ran great. Is it possible that heads could be blown if I ran it that hard and long and the engine sounds complete fine? I would think not

 

[AircraftDoc]

Leaking inner cooler into the intake manifold. There is a low pressure check. Pull off the hoses to the inner cooler and follow Maintenance Manual.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

You can see if you have an issue in the head by doing a simple compression test. To pinpoint wether the problem is a valve, or a head gasket, you can use a leak-down test. It's an old automotive procedure that applies to all 4 strokes. I built my own tester with harbor freight fittings, a mikuni carb jet, compression gauge detachable hose, and a couple pressure gauges. It's pretty easy. Or you can buy one online or from auto part store. Also, check to see if your local autopart store has one in their loaner tool program.

I had milky oil when my oil cooler ruptured internally. When my engine was all apart, I left it in the garage with some residual water in it. It must've frozen and ruptured the thin heat exchanger walls. I don't see how an intercooler would cause milky oil, as there is no oil going through it. They are prone to leaking, but they leak coolant into the intake. This can potentially cause hydrolock, which can total a motor at high RPM. Definitely pressure test that intercooler or upgrade to a better aftermarket one. If it's spraying water into your engine when you're trying to start, this could be the source of your hard starting. I can also see how this could blow the head gasket by increasing combustion pressure (water is not compressible).

 

[Robert215]

Got it! Yeah that’s next on the list for a leak down test and pressure test. I just have to find a procedure for these. I’m pretty sure it’s in the manual. I did the compression test yesterday and had 115 in all. Would you notice a slight drop in pressure if there was a bad head gasket in one of they cylinders?

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

115 sounds low to me, but at least they're all even. What gauge did you use? I'd do compression test, then if one piston is low, do the leak down. I wouldn't run it with milky oil though, water really deteriorates those oil filters... I'd say finding out why you have water in your oil is your biggest concern at this point. When was the last time you changed oil? If you change it right now, even if you don't introduce any more water into the oil, it'll still turn milky almost instantly just because of how much oil is still trapped in your motor after an oil change. It took me about 3 changes and a boil-out procedure (also in manual) to get it normal. I did this after I removed the offending part.

 

[Robert215]

I’ve read that compression for these 4tecs should be atleast 110? But like you said they are all even. Yeah that’s my biggest concern. I did 3 oil flushes yesterday. Bought some cheap oil and just put it in. Ran it for a minute and took it out. I think it’s 100% now. But im still going to do one more. Now I took a picture of the dip stick. Safe to say that’s water or possibly coolant?

 

[Robert215]

And btw I just bought these. Said they were regularly maintenance all that stuff and I’m sure it was a lie. My other 2008 gtx I bought I had to replace the EGT sensor already. And I’m a rookie on these engines I’m learning a lot so I appreciate the patience

 

[Digdog]

Sounds to me like your intercooler is leaking into the engine intake, take the hose off on the intake side of the intercooler and see if there is any water in there.

 

[IDoSeaDoo]

But how would water from intercooler get into oil? It would go directly into the engine, into the combustion chamber and out the exhaust... If enough was getting in to mix with the oil this much, it would hydrolock.

 

[Robert215]

Yeah I’m just lost at this point. I need to do a leak down test to make sure. And btw original 115 of pressure test was cold. It went up to around 128 when I re did it warmed up. The only time I was able to turn it on after running was when I took it out of the water the same day. So I’m going to test that again to make sure it’s not a fluke. It would sit tied to the dock for 6 or more hours and that’s all it needed. It’s gotta be a slow leak somewhere I’m sure

 

[Digdog]

But how would water from intercooler get into oil? It would go directly into the engine, into the combustion chamber and out the exhaust... If enough was getting in to mix with the oil this much, it would hydrolock.

Just the same way too much fuel gets into the oil, when you shut it off some is still in there and it seeps down past the rings. A very simple check to a major problem with these skis, take the water supply hoses of cap one of them and pressure the other one and see if it leaks. You can rig a pressure gauge in there or just use the compressor to measure the leakage.