2005 gtx sc

Cpt Momo

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#1
Hello 4TEC riders

New to the 4TEC and I saw GTX SC with a smoking price tag that I can't miss. I'm 2 stroke rider so the 4TEC is whole new breed to me and would appreciate the tips.

Let me tell you, the first 4TEC I ever look into and it crazy how much compartments it has ... specially the cooler in the front! Compartments every where!

Obvious problems was "sensor" code and (according to owner) pump seal

It fires right up and the owner didn't mind taking it for a test drive tomorrow morning.

He did say the Supercharge won't work if the seal need replacing. It's a salt water ski and I don't mind since I'll be riding it in salt water

Things to point out:

The engine bay has white spots in it so I'm assuming some water was getting in there?? is that from the pump seal? Though he says it doesn't take water and is willing to take it for a test drive. He just said I never wash it the engine bay.

The pump housing came with two versions. Can someone explain the difference?

Update crank shaft?

About The ceramic washers on those pre 2008 4TEC . I couldn't find it in rhe diagram. Can someone explain it for me and what needs to be done?

how can I find put about the sensor codes? Which one to replace?

Anything I should look into?
 


Coastiejoe

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#2
If the SC hasn't been rebuilt it has Ceramic Washers. If it isn't working, I do not believe that a pump seal can be the issue. If the washers have failed, and most Salt Water skis do, then the parts are in the engine. The engine would need pulled and the oil pumps likely rebuilt but at a minimum torn apart and cleaned. As well as clean all the places the Ceramic can go as they are engine killers.

If it gets around 40 MPH ish and has reduced RPMs the SC is not working.

That engine will also have Sodium Filled valves that can fail and cause SERIOUS engine damage. The highest failure rate is a Salt Water ski with a SC.
 

XP 787

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#3
If you end up doing a water test post up RPM's at full throttle. Should be up around 7,800. If its in the 5,000 range then the supercharger isn't building boost. This can be a major problem. Pump seal has nothing to do with the supercharger. Pull the dipstick and see for any metal shavings glistening in the light.
 

Cpt Momo

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#4
If the SC hasn't been rebuilt it has Ceramic Washers. If it isn't working, I do not believe that a pump seal can be the issue. If the washers have failed, and most Salt Water skis do, then the parts are in the engine. The engine would need pulled and the oil pumps likely rebuilt but at a minimum torn apart and cleaned. As well as clean all the places the Ceramic can go as they are engine killers.

If it gets around 40 MPH ish and has reduced RPMs the SC is not working.

That engine will also have Sodium Filled valves that can fail and cause SERIOUS engine damage. The highest failure rate is a Salt Water ski with a SC.
Now I'm guessing the supercharged is shot since the current owner knows and said that it wont perform at its best (supercharger faliure)

So basically I'm looking into an entire engine rebuilt and supercharger washer upgrade and rebuilt if I confirmed the SC Is not working. Also, I'll be checking the pump seals.

What about when sodium filled valves? Can you tell me more about that?
 
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Cpt Momo

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#5
If you end up doing a water test post up RPM's at full throttle. Should be up around 7,800. If its in the 5,000 range then the supercharger isn't building boost. This can be a major problem. Pump seal has nothing to do with the supercharger. Pull the dipstick and see for any metal shavings glistening in the light.
5000 RPM is a no go ... 7800 is agoo ... got it

I was planning on keeping it on the trailor to check things out. And maybe riding it a with the seat off to see if I take in water and locate it.

What you think of a $600 price tag with what we know so far? I'm guessing dropping at least another $600 on it?
 
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Coastiejoe

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#6
What about when sodium filled valves? Can you tell me more about that?
When they fail, they fail at the welded seam. Valve drop onto the piston and all kinds of bad stuff happens. Can easily cost 2 grand to 4 grand if the block also suffers damage.

BRP now used solid core valves which you can/should install now. They are $40 each and it is just the exhaust valves.
 

Cpt Momo

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#7
Done with the water test on the trailor and around the slip.

On the trailor
Dip stick has no metal shavings (pure brown oil)
RPM goes all the way without hesitation 7500+
Supercharge whisling sound
No water coming in the hull

Test drive/swim
Speedometer is not working
RPM functions accordingly
Slight hesitation at first throttle burst but then it opens up shortly (super charge kicks in)

I can see little water at the bottom of the hull and I also drove with the seat off but I couldn't see where the water spraying from. That would be my only concern.

Any thought or recommendation? My only
 

XP 787

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#8
I think you are good as far as the supercharger goes. If you buy the ski have the supercharger rebuilt no matter what. 600 sounds like a steal for that ski BTW. Is it in decent shape?
 

Cpt Momo

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#9
Right! Can't beat a price like that with 60hrs.

It's in a great shape As far as the hull. It's wrapped in black wrapper and cheap "leather" seat covers made in a child labored factory. Owner claims original seat is in a factory condition.

My only concern was (still is) the salt on the engine. Nothing was spraying as I imagined it to be. Just the little water at the buttom of the hull that doesn't exceed the gas tank button (right below it) I think that's where the seals in the pump comes in to be replaced?

one yellow hose was loose and not attached to anything at the end tail behind the SC

It starts right up.

reverse was functional.
 
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Cpt Momo

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#11
OEM SC rebuilt kit ALL comes in ceramic washers for about $300-$400? Where do I get the SC rebuilt kit with steel washers?
 

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#12
The best thing to do is, send your supercharger to www..PWCMuscle.com and it will be rebuilt for $435. It will have all new OEM parts. Return shipping is included. The tool kit needed to rebuild it cost around $150. That plus the parts puts you over the $435. Not worth doing yourself.
 

Cpt Momo

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#13
Sending it off sounds like a good idea. But looking into alternatives to see what I can accomplish. Would the ski function without the SC? What's the turn around time with PWCMus?

What if I just get steel washers and swap them? My friends shop won't mind using their own tools if I needed them but not sure of he has the kit handy.

Does anyone have a picture of the washers that needs to be replaced?

The ski is at 60 hrs ATM and manufacturer SC rebuilt recommendation is after 100hrs.

What if I just he the OEM kit and get steel washer? Just need to know the correct size?
 
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XP 787

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#14
You need special tools for the rebuild. Its actually cheaper having PWC Muscle do it with a very fast turn around time. They get the newest updated kit available with steel washers.

Even with the low hours it has still past the 2 year timeframe. The bearing cages get brittle and fail.
I have over 300 hrs on my ski and nothing beats the piece of mind of a professionally rebuilt supercharger.
 

Coastiejoe

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#15
Sending it off sounds like a good idea. But looking into alternatives to see what I can accomplish. Would the ski function without the SC? What's the turn around time with PWCMus?

What if I just get steel washers and swap them? My friends shop won't mind using their own tools if I needed them but not sure of he has the kit handy.

Does anyone have a picture of the washers that needs to be replaced?

The ski is at 60 hrs ATM and manufacturer SC rebuilt recommendation is after 100hrs.

What if I just he the OEM kit and get steel washer? Just need to know the correct size?
1). It will function without the SC but poorly. Also, you would have to block off the SC port as oil would leak. ABSOLUTELY not worth it IMO.
2). Steel washers do not solve all issues as the squirrel cages and bearings get brittle over time and break. They need replaced as well.
3). You buddy can't rebuild it unless he has the special tools. A regular tool set can not rebuild a SC. The cheap set that eBay sells for them will last maybe twice, they are junk and do not hold up.
4). They normally rebuild them the day they get them. Mine was back at my house in 4 days.
 

Cpt Momo

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#16
Alright ...

The GSX limited is home now.

Took off the wrap off of it... the hull and seats are in a great shape! Woohoo

Few thing I would appreciate the help with.

What kind of coolant does it take?

Do I add engine oil or do I drain and add?

The engine is a closed loop so when flushing, I don't get water out of th pisser. So I'm actually flushing the water box?

When flushing the water box, the white "T" with red cap is spraying water and I couldn't figure out how to put the cap on. I put my finger on it to stop the spraying while I'm flushing it.

The front compartment should have a gas shock stopper but it's not present and I can clearly see on in the diagram.

Symptom: "burn out" like movement while in the water. It's fine with one person on it but it's obvious with two person. Wear ring?
 
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XP 787

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#17
When flushing you are actually flushing intercooler and exhaust.

The cavitation can be caused by wear ring or carbon seal.

Since the ski is new to you change oil, filter,and spark plugs.
 

Cpt Momo

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#20
The speed sensor unit was changed (I thought it was rectangular) can someone confirm?

missing the wheel so that's a good sign

 

Coastiejoe

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#22
Do I need to remove the SC if I need to replace the carbon seal/seal carrier?
No. they have nothing to do with each other. SC is bolted high on the backside of the engine and the CS is on the driveshaft of the back of the engine.
 

Cpt Momo

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#23
True... I was able to reach below the super charge.

I was able to score an OEM season GTX cover locally at the dealer when I went to pick up spark plugs, engine oil, coolant and the seal carrier.

The carbon seal is not available so I might end up ordering it instead. The only had the metal piece. Though I thought they come as a kit but that wasn't the deal

I'll just change the oil on the jet pump, sparks, engine

Was trying to line things up for the weekend to work on it but got pushed back with the seal carrier
 

XP 787

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#24
You will have to bolt the pump back onto the hull to change the carbon ring. Slide the metal collar towards the back of the hull and remove the c-clip. Then remove pump and driveshaft. When removing driveshaft be careful not to pull out carrier bearing from the back of the motor.


Change the rubber bellows that holds the carbon ring also. This is what puts tension on the metal top hat collar. They sell a tool to help pry that metal collar back but I've done it before without it.

It might be easier to pull supercharger and get more room. (Only 3 bolts)
 

XP 787

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#25
Oh and those small allen screws in the rideplate look like they might be letting some coolant leak out. Look into that before you put the pump back on.

Awesome looking ski BTW!!
 

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