2001 Seadoo Challenger 2000 240HP M2 EFI - No Start

[am-fs]

Classic Seadoo purchase " was a great deal ".
Was not able to test drive because of a hole in the hull.
Got that fixed and drained the gas tank and changed the inline filter and new battery ....fresh gas.
Test run on hose..... Started 1st try and ran for a couple of mins, check restart, good.
Went to lake, ran long enough to get it off trailer and half way to shore ..... died and never restarted.

Found no fuel pressure, replaced high pressure fuel pump, filter and water separator filter ..... KOEO fuel pressure 37psi
Test run on hose ..... Started right up, seemed to be running fine, restart no issues, idle @ 1200rpm.
At the lake again, fired right up and went to shore and picked up wife and son. Idling out past wake zone ,gave it a little throttle .... bogged down, let it idle some more and throttle up again ... nothing, so heading back to shore I tried to clear it out, would only due 12mph @ 3500 rpm. At shore turned it off and hooked up fuel pressure gauge KOEO 37psi and would not restart.

Back home, ran a compression test @ WOT.... 125-128 on all 6. Fuel still at 37psi, checked float @ VST tank drain ...OK.
Fuel pressure holds for hours.
Found no spark on Cylinder 1, looked at the trigger harness .... falling apart.
Installed new trigger and a new set of spark plugs, Now has spark on all 6.
No Start!!!

Changed temp sensor and check ECU and Injector harness and clean engine grounds.
After cranking, plugs are wet. Not soaking but wet.
Unplugged black/yellow wire next to trigger harness ... tested on hose.
Have a single beep KOEO.

I do have a throttle guardian.

Any ideas?

 

[Tim75]

Classic Seadoo purchase " was a great deal ".
Was not able to test drive because of a hole in the hull.
Got that fixed and drained the gas tank and changed the inline filter and new battery ....fresh gas.
Test run on hose..... Started 1st try and ran for a couple of mins, check restart, good.
Went to lake, ran long enough to get it off trailer and half way to shore ..... died and never restarted.

Found no fuel pressure, replaced high pressure fuel pump, filter and water separator filter ..... KOEO fuel pressure 37psi
Test run on hose ..... Started right up, seemed to be running fine, restart no issues, idle @ 1200rpm.
At the lake again, fired right up and went to shore and picked up wife and son. Idling out past wake zone ,gave it a little throttle .... bogged down, let it idle some more and throttle up again ... nothing, so heading back to shore I tried to clear it out, would only due 12mph @ 3500 rpm. At shore turned it off and hooked up fuel pressure gauge KOEO 37psi and would not restart.

Back home, ran a compression test @ WOT.... 125-128 on all 6. Fuel still at 37psi, checked float @ VST tank drain ...OK.
Fuel pressure holds for hours.
Found no spark on Cylinder 1, looked at the trigger harness .... falling apart.
Installed new trigger and a new set of spark plugs, Now has spark on all 6.
No Start!!!

Changed temp sensor and check ECU and Injector harness and clean engine grounds.
After cranking, plugs are wet. Not soaking but wet.
Unplugged black/yellow wire next to trigger harness ... tested on hose.
Have a single beep KOEO.

I do have a throttle guardian.

Any ideas?

No start or no crank? No crank can be caused by shifter interlock or bad solenoid or bad wire to the solenoid. Or bad starter. No start can be caused by bad kill switch. Black with yellow stripe wire is the kill wire.

You found the Merc OEM wire quality issue. I don't understand their use of that junk.

Possibly need to have ignition timing set. Special tools neded.

 

[am-fs]

Cranks ..... No Start.
Removed the guardian
Black with yellow stripe wire you speak of .... on top of motor? (see pic) Then ...yes.
Timing? I will get that done next.

On another question ..... Does any one have a candoopro ? I would like to see the data and codes but want to hear from other members that have one or seen one in use.

 

[Tim75]

Are you getting spark by? Even if the timing is off, you should get some sound trying to start.

 

[am-fs]

I have a adjustable ignition spark checker, A helper cranks and I watch for spark.

It has fired off a couple of times for a few seconds but only on first attempts to start.

 

[nenikol23]

I am reading this thread and I get flashbacks. Initially would start up and run fine but bog down and die at anything over 2500rpm. Then it just stopped starting. Here's my thread in case you want to go over it if you can use some info.

https://www.seadooforum.com/threads/2000-challenger-2000-240-merc-stalls-above-2800-rpm.108056/
I'll be following this one, keep us posted!

 

[am-fs]

Update:
I ended up removing throttle body to clean and check injectors.
Found the Air Temp Sensor out of specs. (Replaced)
Injectors were in great shape.

I also removed the pulse fuel pump for inspection, found no issues but did find a bad vacuum line pinched between. (New kit and vacuum line)

Starts right up, idles @ 1200rpm, putting out 14.24 volts and fuel pressure @ 35psi.
Started it several times through out the day, no issues found.

I hope to have it out this weekend with no engine issues...... lol

 

[Dr Honda]

Glad to hear it's running. Sometimes you just have to dive into it, and check everything.

 

[am-fs]

Well, we took it out and started and ran great. We cruised for about 20-30mins, topped out around 55mph.
Went back to the shore to pick up some items, would not start (cranks - no start).
Checked the fuel pressure 37psi KOEO, after 20 mins of checking it out. If finally started .... so we cruised around and tubed. No issues coming out of the hole. (30-40mins run time).
Turned off to chill in the lake, It would not restart, had to be towed in.
Back home hooked up the water .....started right up.

Only thing i notice while driving, there is some white smoke. It clears up cruising, but every time out of the hole is a cloud.

So what would cause the motor not to restart after running it 30 mins?

 

[Dr Honda]

These engines run relatively clean, and low smoke once they warm up. But I can tell you that when I first put mine on the water... especially after it sits for a while... there is a lot of smoke. So... that's kind of normal.

OK... with it running well... We know that the major systems are working... and that's good. SO a few thoughts on the restarts...

1) are you running the bilge fan? My boat is hard to restart if I don't have that fan running, and getting fresh air down into the bilge.

2) you said the injectors were good. Did you have them rebuilt or properly tested? I have seen a bunch of times where they leak a little. So... you get a rough or low idle... and a very hart time on a restart. (Basically, you have to deal with a flooded engine) But, as it sits... that fuel boils off, and it will restart.

3) I know you were working with the ignition... did you check all 6 plugs for a strong spark? Did you install new plugs?

4) I know you tested several sensors... but did you check the tps?

I know this is hard to do... but next time you have it on the water... have a helper manually hold the throttle open a little to see if it will help with the restart. Sometimes getting a little air into the engine gets it to fire off.

 

[am-fs]

Thanks for the reply Dr Honda.

1 - Yes I run the bilge fan and I have the inner cover removed.

2 - Injectors were cleaned/serviced at a shop.

3 - Ignition - spark was checked with a adjustable spark tester, all 6 where good. All plugs are brand new (NGK) I have not check the spark gap since I had the injectors serviced.

4 - TPS - I just received my test harness, have not had much time to test but I am getting KOEO 4.3 volts (temp sensor unplugged) @ full throttle 4.7, voltage does not change till it is 3/4 full throttle.

 

[rsatina2002]

Did you check also your port side temp sensor.... maybe also you need to change the water separator filter.... Mine is the same problem with yours before... The problem that I noticed is the air temp sensor and change to brand new one and it didn't have a hot/cold start issue anymore, but I did rebuild my ECU's before then, change the Electronic fuel pump in the VST... I think you did everything already except port side temp sensor... and per Dr. Honda TPS sensor, yes when i set the specs I have somebody adjust the throttle to properly set o the voltage per manual specs... when I sold my Challenger, everything is good and runs fine... Hope you'll have a good time for this summer boating fun.

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks for the reply Dr Honda.

4 - TPS - I just received my test harness, have not had much time to test but I am getting KOEO 4.3 volts (temp sensor unplugged) @ full throttle 4.7, voltage does not change till it is 3/4 full throttle.

Well......... There's the problem. You should be around 0.2 to 0.3 volts at idle. And around 7 volts at full throttle. You should also see a smooth, relatively linear change in voltage as you move the throttle up. Right now... the ECU sees that the throttle is half way up, and is spraying too much fuel, and flooding the engine as you are trying to start it.

 

[NickHosse]

I have my own thread bit not getting many responses. This sounds like my same problem. I've been told to check the kill switch. How do I test kill switch. Also where do you buy a TPS test harness? I am almost certain it's not the TPS, but it's something for sure. Just had my engine remanufactured and have only gotten thru 90 minutes of break-in procedure before this started.