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1997 787 No Spark-Possible causes
- Thread starter Krispy
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jhjesse
Well-Known Member
Been watching this ski myself. Called once and offered $500. No sale.
He has had it for sale for a while, maybe offer Him $700 and bring a compression tester with you. $700 and a pick up coil for that ski wouldn't be too bad provided it has good compression.
Don't like the graphics, but should be easy enough to change.
uke:
He has had it for sale for a while, maybe offer Him $700 and bring a compression tester with you. $700 and a pick up coil for that ski wouldn't be too bad provided it has good compression.
Don't like the graphics, but should be easy enough to change.
uke:
Krispy
Well-Known Member
Been watching this ski myself. Called once and offered $500. No sale.
He has had it for sale for a while, maybe offer Him $700 and bring a compression tester with you. $700 and a pick up coil for that ski wouldn't be too bad provided it has good compression.
Don't like the graphics, but should be easy enough to change.
Yea, I got the name of the previous owner and the HIN just a minute ago. Will be checking with state o GA about registering it.
How long have you seen it for sale? When did you offer?
Krispy
Well-Known Member
How about you Adam?
Did he counter offer you or seem angry? Trying to feel out how an offer will go...
AdamXP800
Well-Known Member
If it's the same one, he wants too much IMO. It's been on the market forever though, maybe you can get it cheap cheap
Edit* after reading the ad again he seems alittle high on himself. "Don't waist his time by offering him less than 1200"???
Long live the 2 stroke Seadoo!
Edit* after reading the ad again he seems alittle high on himself. "Don't waist his time by offering him less than 1200"???
Long live the 2 stroke Seadoo!
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Krispy
Well-Known Member
Did you have to share the link!
I don't want a fellow SDF member snatch it from underneath me! All, give me a day to figure it out. After that game on! (Please)
Spimothy Leary
Well-Known Member
we've discussed that down here in Florida on several occasions, but by the time you buy a ski, figure in transportation costs, customs, and sharing profit with a cohort that will fix/sell, you get a big chunk of that large profit taken away. In the end, IMO, you'd have to transport up maybe 6-8 ski's at one time to make the kind of return on investment you need for a viable enterprise, doing it 2-3 ski's at a time will chew up so much profit your better off staying home and selling them outright w/o all the extra effort. (my .02)
with that said, I've thought that if I could collect maybe 6-8 ski's @ about $300 each, do NOTHING to them except store them until I have enough then maybe you could turn a nice profit of about $4-600 each after expenses. but is it worth ALL that effort to maybe make 2K ? I find it easier to just flip the easy fixes and on the difficult fixes, just part them b1tches out and move on
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Yup for sure...transportation costs are crazy.
Plus...Florida skis can have hidden saltwater damage/issues, frozen bolts, etc. No one likes to buy salt water parts/skis.
Thats why Tim buys parts from me!
Plus...Florida skis can have hidden saltwater damage/issues, frozen bolts, etc. No one likes to buy salt water parts/skis.
Thats why Tim buys parts from me!
Krispy
Well-Known Member
Well, I picked it up today, it followed me home.
I was able to talk him down a bit, we both left happy.
There are some good and some bad points, but I will start a build thread once I get this first problem figured out.
I pulled the stator cover off and had a look, nice and clean inside, no broken pickup bracket.
I measured the resistance across the pickup coil and it was within spec (242 ohms actual).
I did notice that the small black grounding wire was not hooked to the battery neg terminal as it is on my 96, but instead shared a grounding point on the rear engine brace arch (is that the correct grounding point for a 97 gsx?)
I relocated it to the battery and had a go, still no spark.
Anyone have any leads? I will be getting back to work on this in the AM.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I was able to talk him down a bit, we both left happy.
There are some good and some bad points, but I will start a build thread once I get this first problem figured out.
I pulled the stator cover off and had a look, nice and clean inside, no broken pickup bracket.
I measured the resistance across the pickup coil and it was within spec (242 ohms actual).
I did notice that the small black grounding wire was not hooked to the battery neg terminal as it is on my 96, but instead shared a grounding point on the rear engine brace arch (is that the correct grounding point for a 97 gsx?)
I relocated it to the battery and had a go, still no spark.
Anyone have any leads? I will be getting back to work on this in the AM.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
kicker
Well-Known Member
There shouldn't be any ground wires on the engine mount.
The 97 will have a bit different set up then the 96. There is no grounding wire coming from your ignition coil going directly to your battery on the 97. You will have 4 black wires on the bottom bolt of your ignition coil of the 97,
1 goes to the MPEM,
1 goes to the VTS,
1 goes to the solenoid,
and the other will be a short loop that goes from the bolt on the bottom of the ignition coil to the negative post on the bottom of the ignition coil.
On the 96 there is not a ground off the ignition coil that goes back the the MPEM, it goes directly to the battery.
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Krispy
Well-Known Member
I will give this a look. The seller included 2 spare rear e-box setups ( coil and such) apparently he had figured out the problem was somewhere back there but hadn't found it.
Lets hope we can!
Krispy
Well-Known Member
Ok, so the PO had a jumper wire that ran from the post at the bottom of the coil, to the point where the battery grounds on the engine.
Above is the coil end of the added wire.
I removed that wire.
I checked continuity to ground for the other wires at that bolt (disconnected/ individually) and found that only the coil ground (far left/upper in the pic below) showed continuity to the battery neg. terminal. All others were "open".
I am assuming this is correct but haven't looked at the diagrams to confirm.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Above is the coil end of the added wire.
I removed that wire.
I checked continuity to ground for the other wires at that bolt (disconnected/ individually) and found that only the coil ground (far left/upper in the pic below) showed continuity to the battery neg. terminal. All others were "open".
I am assuming this is correct but haven't looked at the diagrams to confirm.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah...I got a feeling you have a bad mpem.
The fact you have checked the pickup (which should have the updated pickup already) and it was fine, and the back ebox was clean...running that extra ground is a step you want to use on an XP....it doesnt help much on a GSX, and it usually gets run from the back ebox or ground on the battery to the front Ebox to rule out a ground wire issue on XPs.
Check to make sure it isnt the coil pack by unhooking the white wire off the coil and put a test light on that wire and ground. Crank the motor....it should flash. If it doesnt....
Since you know the MPEM is getting power and ground, and you know the pickup is ok, then theres two things it can be....Wiring/pin corrosion, or MPEM.
It isnt very normal for a panel MPEM work operate but have no spark...but it is possible. The CDI is built into the MPEM and like any machine, a CDI can die.
The fact you have checked the pickup (which should have the updated pickup already) and it was fine, and the back ebox was clean...running that extra ground is a step you want to use on an XP....it doesnt help much on a GSX, and it usually gets run from the back ebox or ground on the battery to the front Ebox to rule out a ground wire issue on XPs.
Check to make sure it isnt the coil pack by unhooking the white wire off the coil and put a test light on that wire and ground. Crank the motor....it should flash. If it doesnt....
Since you know the MPEM is getting power and ground, and you know the pickup is ok, then theres two things it can be....Wiring/pin corrosion, or MPEM.
It isnt very normal for a panel MPEM work operate but have no spark...but it is possible. The CDI is built into the MPEM and like any machine, a CDI can die.
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Krispy
Well-Known Member
So an update from the garage:
I broke open the manual and followed the instructions:
When dealing with ignition problems, the following items should be verified in this order:
1. Spark occurrence/ spark plug condition- (This is why we are checking aren't we...(plugs replaced)
2. Battery condition- Yea, interesting findings here.
3. Electrical connections-Checked all connections, seemed OK. Removed 2 fuses from MPEM that had some slight corrosion on them, replaced with fresh ones. No other problems found.
4. Engine start/stop switch -Not checked
5. Safety lanyard switch- Not checked
6. Timer- Not Checked
7. Multi-Purpose Electronic Module (MPEM) Not Checked
8. Magneto output (717 enines) N/A
9. Ignition coil output Not Checked
OK Back to the battery:
Original Battery:
Voltage no load ~12.8 Voltage while starting ~9.8.
Took the battery off and put it on the charger.
Put on my AGM battery
Voltage no load~12.6 Voltage while starting ~10.5 turned over much faster. About that time, Original battery is charged.
Swapped AGM for Original.
Voltage no load ~13.0 Voltage while starting ~5.8??
Apparently something is drawing a huge amount of current all of a sudden that wasn't before. Think this might be something of interest. I am waiting for the AGM to get a fresh charge and I will check again to rule out the battery he gave me with the ski (original)
I really hope you aren't right but I would like to find the culprit here.
-On 07-02-13 of the 97 service manual there is a chart for testing the MPEM, I know it isn't a full check but perhaps it can lend some insight as to what might be the problem. Do you have experience checking using the resistance checks show there? Is it a worth while check?
Also regarding checking the coil. I don't own a test light....I assume I could look for voltage using a multi-meter?
[MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] go ahead and send me a PM on what you sell good MPEM's for/ what it would cost to check mine.
Thanks all for the help! Keep the suggestions coming!
I broke open the manual and followed the instructions:
When dealing with ignition problems, the following items should be verified in this order:
1. Spark occurrence/ spark plug condition- (This is why we are checking aren't we...(plugs replaced)
2. Battery condition- Yea, interesting findings here.
3. Electrical connections-Checked all connections, seemed OK. Removed 2 fuses from MPEM that had some slight corrosion on them, replaced with fresh ones. No other problems found.
4. Engine start/stop switch -Not checked
5. Safety lanyard switch- Not checked
6. Timer- Not Checked
7. Multi-Purpose Electronic Module (MPEM) Not Checked
8. Magneto output (717 enines) N/A
9. Ignition coil output Not Checked
OK Back to the battery:
Original Battery:
Voltage no load ~12.8 Voltage while starting ~9.8.
Took the battery off and put it on the charger.
Put on my AGM battery
Voltage no load~12.6 Voltage while starting ~10.5 turned over much faster. About that time, Original battery is charged.
Swapped AGM for Original.
Voltage no load ~13.0 Voltage while starting ~5.8??
Apparently something is drawing a huge amount of current all of a sudden that wasn't before. Think this might be something of interest. I am waiting for the AGM to get a fresh charge and I will check again to rule out the battery he gave me with the ski (original)
I really hope you aren't right but I would like to find the culprit here.
-On 07-02-13 of the 97 service manual there is a chart for testing the MPEM, I know it isn't a full check but perhaps it can lend some insight as to what might be the problem. Do you have experience checking using the resistance checks show there? Is it a worth while check?
Also regarding checking the coil. I don't own a test light....I assume I could look for voltage using a multi-meter?
[MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] go ahead and send me a PM on what you sell good MPEM's for/ what it would cost to check mine.
Thanks all for the help! Keep the suggestions coming!
Krispy
Well-Known Member
OK,
So I pulled the white lead from the coil, and put the multi-meter inline to ground and tried to turn engine over. Nothing, no turn over etc. I would assume the MPEM is seeing a problem and not allowing the starter to engage?
Edit:^ I just realized how the test should be run. Leaving the white wire attached but touching the terminal with the multi-meter lead, the other lead to ground. Shows voltage change while starting. I think this test has been passed. (Still not sure)
In the service manual there is a method for testing the coil.
1. Remove the 2 female spade connectors from the primary side of the ignition coil.
2. With the meter set on the resistance scale, connect the meter leads to the primary terminals of the coil.
3. Resistance should be between 0.34- 0.62 ohm
I checked my coil and found resistance to be 1.2 ohms.. On the surface this is a good thing. I have found something in the ignition system that is out of spec. However, I checked 2 other coils I had around and they all checked out at about 1.2 ohm one of the coils was from my 96xp (verified working) and the other was from a random e-box that came with this ski I purchased.
I checked the resistance between the secondary winding of the coil and it checked out within spec, both with the plug boots removed and without.
Perhaps the coil is different between the XP and the GTX? Perhaps ALL the coils I have here are from an earlier ski and are not correct for this one?
Can anyone help me figure that one out?
So I pulled the white lead from the coil, and put the multi-meter inline to ground and tried to turn engine over. Nothing, no turn over etc. I would assume the MPEM is seeing a problem and not allowing the starter to engage?
Edit:^ I just realized how the test should be run. Leaving the white wire attached but touching the terminal with the multi-meter lead, the other lead to ground. Shows voltage change while starting. I think this test has been passed. (Still not sure)
In the service manual there is a method for testing the coil.
1. Remove the 2 female spade connectors from the primary side of the ignition coil.
2. With the meter set on the resistance scale, connect the meter leads to the primary terminals of the coil.
3. Resistance should be between 0.34- 0.62 ohm
I checked my coil and found resistance to be 1.2 ohms.. On the surface this is a good thing. I have found something in the ignition system that is out of spec. However, I checked 2 other coils I had around and they all checked out at about 1.2 ohm one of the coils was from my 96xp (verified working) and the other was from a random e-box that came with this ski I purchased.
I checked the resistance between the secondary winding of the coil and it checked out within spec, both with the plug boots removed and without.
Perhaps the coil is different between the XP and the GTX? Perhaps ALL the coils I have here are from an earlier ski and are not correct for this one?
Can anyone help me figure that one out?
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