1996 Seadoo GTX Dying on water

[Drew_79]

Hi Everyone,
Long time listener, first time caller. So, my new to me '96 GTX keep dying once it gets in the water. I can connect/disconnect the DESS key while it sits in my garage a billion times and it always recognizes it and I get the lights on the gauge cluster (beeps don't work). It is also fairly easy to start. Once I get it in the water, it's hard to start, but runs fine when it's going, until I start motoring away from the launch. Anywhere from 20ft to a hundred yards and it quits like the DESS key was pulled. When this initially happened to me, I was able to get it to start after some cursing and fiddling. Now, it does not...once it's dead, it's dead. I replaced the battery today and it still had the issue, so I'm leaning toward something getting wet and shorting. I checked the forward compartment and there's minimal water in there, the gray box was dry as a bone as were wires going into and out of it. Grounds at battery look good and dry, but I have not traced them yet. My next thought is to let it dry out overnight/through tomorrow until it starts recognizing the key again. Once it does, I figured I'd start squirting water around the stern area systematically until I find what's causing the issue. Does this seem like a good plan? Is there something else I should check that may be causing this? I know there are lots of posts about the DESS post and other related items, but to me, it sounds like it's more of a electrical short...again, looking for those with more experience with this system to let me know if this is a DESS issue or not.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew

 

[etemplet]

When you say dead, the engine will not turn over at all? Or does the engine turn over an "no-start"? I suggest you download the manual and go through the troubleshooting guide. It would help if you replaced the beeper and got that working. It can tell you a lot.

Other than that, I'd do the checks on the DESS Post, and verify it's working. Also, check the small black wire that connects to the battery. I found mine in bad condition and it recently broke off completely. The ski won't do anything with that wire disconncted. I Have a 96 and a 97 GTX. I've chased a few electronic issues myself. I'll help if I can.

 

[Drew_79]

Thank you, I'll check the dess post and the black wire. I'll also see about replacing the beeper. When it dies, it will not even turn over. It acts like the dess key is not on the post.

 

[etemplet]

One thing about big problems.... they are usually easier to find. I usually get the weird problems that play hide and seek.

 

[etemplet]

There are our two GTXs. Great skis. They do it all for my wife and I and she likes that hers is faster. Perhaps in month or so I'll get to check the compression on my ski.

 

[Drew_79]

Those skis are in great shape!

Started tearing mine apart a little last night and got to the buzzer. New one on order. Tried connecting key this morning and still no lights on gauges. I'll check fuses next.

Assuming worst case - MPEM is roasted - has anyone had any luck with the aftermarket units that basically get rid of the security feature and just treat the dess key/post as a safety switch (just uses the connection to start, doesn't read ID on key)? THey are way cheaper than going OEM from what I've seen.

--Andrew

 

[Ckrawiec]

Hi Everyone,
Long time listener, first time caller. So, my new to me '96 GTX keep dying once it gets in the water. I can connect/disconnect the DESS key while it sits in my garage a billion times and it always recognizes it and I get the lights on the gauge cluster (beeps don't work). It is also fairly easy to start. Once I get it in the water, it's hard to start, but runs fine when it's going, until I start motoring away from the launch. Anywhere from 20ft to a hundred yards and it quits like the DESS key was pulled. When this initially happened to me, I was able to get it to start after some cursing and fiddling. Now, it does not...once it's dead, it's dead. I replaced the battery today and it still had the issue, so I'm leaning toward something getting wet and shorting. I checked the forward compartment and there's minimal water in there, the gray box was dry as a bone as were wires going into and out of it. Grounds at battery look good and dry, but I have not traced them yet. My next thought is to let it dry out overnight/through tomorrow until it starts recognizing the key again. Once it does, I figured I'd start squirting water around the stern area systematically until I find what's causing the issue. Does this seem like a good plan? Is there something else I should check that may be causing this? I know there are lots of posts about the DESS post and other related items, but to me, it sounds like it's more of a electrical short...again, looking for those with more experience with this system to let me know if this is a DESS issue or not.

Thank you for your time,
Andrew

Hope this will help....

 

[Drew_79]

Very helpful! Thank you, Ckrawiec!

 

[Ckrawiec]

The longer I keep fiddling with my '96 GTX ski, the more I'm convinced that the lions share of the issues (especially the older models at this point) are Electrical and Carb related....the hardware all seems pretty robust...but the elctrical gremlins will cause you to pull your hair out......

 

[Drew_79]

The longer I keep fiddling with my '96 GTX ski, the more I'm convinced that the lions share of the issues (especially the older models at this point) are Electrical and Carb related....the hardware all seems pretty robust...but the elctrical gremlins will cause you to pull your hair out......

That is the conclusion I'm quickly coming to, especially the more threads I read...electrical seems to be a major weak point as they age. The really frustrating part is that I bought this ski so the kids and I could have fun this summer (because we're in-between boats) and with it dying on us the first time we took it out, they want nothing to do with it. So, I may go through all this work only to sell it when I'm done...*sigh*

Thank you again for all the help!

-Andrew

 

[Ckrawiec]

Very helpful! Thank you, Ckrawiec!

NOTE...if you do any carb work at all....2 choices: stick with all the original Mikuni parts, but clean everything REALLY well and make sure all jet passages are clear OR IF you go the rebuild kit route - ONLY GET GENUINE MIKUNI OEM kits.....otherwise you will be wasting your time and money....save yourself the aggravation (been down that road).

 

[Drew_79]

NOTE...if you do any carb work at all....2 choices: stick with all the original Mikuni parts, but clean everything REALLY well and make sure all jet passages are clear OR IF you go the rebuild kit route - ONLY GET GENUINE MIKUNI OEM kits.....otherwise you will be wasting your time and money....save yourself the aggravation (been down that road).

Sounds like the brakes on my old Subaru. It would chew up and spit out anything but OEM rotors...that's a good bit of info.

 

[Ckrawiec]

NOTE...if you do any carb work at all....2 choices: stick with all the original Mikuni parts, but clean everything REALLY well and make sure all jet passages are clear OR IF you go the rebuild kit route - ONLY GET GENUINE MIKUNI OEM kits.....otherwise you will be wasting your time and money....save yourself the aggravation (been down that road).

Also, if not already done...replace all grey tempo fuel lines to standard black automotive lines 1/4" will do (25' feet will do the job) and all new SS band clamps, fuel selector switch too. Does your gas gauge work?

 

[Drew_79]

The multifunction display is all crinkled. I ordered some polarizer film to replace it so I can see if it's working at all or not.

Should have that and the buzzer early next week, if it doesn't come the 5th.

 

[Drew_79]

Pulled the cover off the rear box. There is a small amount of standing water in it. I'm going to start by checking the solenoid and ignition coil first. I'm not too familiar with the internal workings of jet ski's yet, but how is water getting sprayed on that box? Do I have another issue that I don't know about or is that normal to have water sprayed back there? Obviously, I'll get the leaky box situation fixed.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Ckrawiec]

Pulled the cover off the rear box. There is a small amount of standing water in it. I'm going to start by checking the solenoid and ignition coil first. I'm not too familiar with the internal workings of jet ski's yet, but how is water getting sprayed on that box? Do I have another issue that I don't know about or is that normal to have water sprayed back there? Obviously, I'll get the leaky box situation fixed.

Thanks,
Andrew

TYPICALLY speaking, the hull should be water tight and water shouldn't be spraying around inside....BUT, there are water lines and valves running around in there so be on the lookout for leaks. Rain also gets into the hulls...from the topside...they are not waterproof. If you run the ski on a garden hose, look for a leaky Water pressure regulating valve(looking into the ski body from the starboard (right), rear upper left on the exhaust pipe....looks just like a rave valve.

The rear electric box should be "fairly" water resistant....in my disseration of the 12V low chase...I state that there is a gasket between the box bottom and top.....your gasket might not be sitting just right OR heaven forbid missing or this ski filled with water and got above the box seal or the connector on top (MINE DID, she went nose up and everything from below the handle bars down was submerged).

She is running today though, with no ill effects...running better than ever actually.

 

[Ckrawiec]

TYPICALLY speaking, the hull should be water tight and water shouldn't be spraying around inside....BUT, there are water lines and valves running around in there so be on the lookout for leaks. Rain also gets into the hulls...from the topside...they are not waterproof. If you run the ski on a garden hose, look for a leaky Water pressure regulating valve(looking into the ski body from the starboard (right), rear upper left on the exhaust pipe....looks just like a rave valve.

The rear electric box should be "fairly" water resistant....in my disseration of the 12V low chase...I state that there is a gasket between the box bottom and top.....your gasket might not be sitting just right OR heaven forbid missing or this ski filled with water and got above the box seal or the connector on top (MINE DID, she went nose up and everything from below the handle bars down was submerged).

She is running today though, with no ill effects...running better than ever actually.

Oh, forgot to mention, and I never noticed this before until last week in my ski....if you run off a hose, the ski should pee a really good stream straight out the rear above the rear deck indicating a free flowing water stream through the water jackets of the engine and exhaust system (so watch what you are pointing at)....if it isn't peeing strong then you also need to check for pluggage in the lines/head (I had a big 'ol plug of vegatation in my line outboard of the head, the big in your face exhaust pipe should NOT be too hot to touch if the ski is cooling properly while running....start by pulling the bigger hoses connected to the head. FYI...running on a hose means you are running the cooling system backwards (the garden hose IN port behind the ski, is really the water port OUT of the ski under normal running conditions (so warm water should be coming OUT of that port under normal running conditions (but don't put your hands down there to check).

 

[Ckrawiec]

Oh, forgot to mention, and I never noticed this before until last week in my ski....if you run off a hose, the ski should pee a really good stream straight out the rear above the rear deck indicating a free flowing water stream through the water jackets of the engine and exhaust system (so watch what you are pointing at)....if it isn't peeing strong then you also need to check for pluggage in the lines/head (I had a big 'ol plug of vegatation in my line outboard of the head, the big in your face exhaust pipe should NOT be too hot to touch if the ski is cooling properly while running....start by pulling the bigger hoses connected to the head. FYI...running on a hose means you are running the cooling system backwards (the garden hose IN port behind the ski, is really the water port OUT of the ski under normal running conditions (so warm water should be coming OUT of that port under normal running conditions (but don't put your hands down there to check).

Also, DON'T run the water into the ski through the hose UNTIL the ski is running...otherwise, you could force water into the engine.....get the ski started FIRST, then turn on the water.

 

[JeremyD615]

Assuming worst case - MPEM is roasted - has anyone had any luck with the aftermarket units that basically get rid of the security feature and just treat the dess key/post as a safety switch (just uses the connection to start, doesn't read ID on key)? THey are way cheaper than going OEM from what I've seen.

--Andrew

Some have had good luck with the aftermarket MPEM’s, and some have not. It seems that there are some quality control issues with the aftermarket manufacturers, as there are a lot of reports of them being defective right out of the box. To be fair, I think a lot of these issues may actually be installation error, as the wire colors on the OEM and aftermarket ones do not match up. If you don’t have both the factory wiring diagram and the one for the new MPEM, you will absolutely get something crossed up.

The pros of the aftermarket products are cost, availability, and not having to program DESS keys anymore. I don’t have a ton of experience with the aftermarket here, but I do have a 787 ski that now has an Arieltek MPEM, and it has been fine so far.

 

[Drew_79]

Some have had good luck with the aftermarket MPEM’s, and some have not. It seems that there are some quality control issues with the aftermarket manufacturers, as there are a lot of reports of them being defective right out of the box. To be fair, I think a lot of these issues may actually be installation error, as the wire colors on the OEM and aftermarket ones do not match up. If you don’t have both the factory wiring diagram and the one for the new MPEM, you will absolutely get something crossed up.

The pros of the aftermarket products are cost, availability, and not having to program DESS keys anymore. I don’t have a ton of experience with the aftermarket here, but I do have a 787 ski that now has an Arieltek MPEM, and it has been fine so far.

Thanks, Jeremy! I appreciate your insights.

 

[Drew_79]

Also, DON'T run the water into the ski through the hose UNTIL the ski is running...otherwise, you could force water into the engine.....get the ski started FIRST, then turn on the water.

Thank you, sir. I'll keep that in mind. Now that I've seen where water is collecting, I'm hopeful I'm in the right area. Just need to find some time now to check everything out. Going to be tough this week with the Holiday and guests coming into town.

 

[etemplet]

Pulled the cover off the rear box. There is a small amount of standing water in it. I'm going to start by checking the solenoid and ignition coil first. I'm not too familiar with the internal workings of jet ski's yet, but how is water getting sprayed on that box? Do I have another issue that I don't know about or is that normal to have water sprayed back there? Obviously, I'll get the leaky box situation fixed.

Thanks,
Andrew

Get all that water out of there. Clean every connection point and reassemble with dielectric grease. Make sure your seal is on the box correctly. That's gotta be as dry as possible.

 

[etemplet]

A year ago I'd be tempted to agree with you guys on the electrical issues but once you learn the dance the big stuff it's pretty straight forward. The big problem is "how many incompetent people worked on the ski" That is what makes it more difficult. We're keeping our 96 and 97 GTXs. Great skis !! Once you get em right.... you could spend more time getting them... righter. LOL

 

[Drew_79]

Well, spent a bit of time on it last night here are the results:
- Start/Stop button checks out OK
- DESS Post Checks out OK
- OHM'd out the DESS Keys - Both measured upwards of 600 ohms. From what I've read they should be around 5 ohm's for consistent operation. May be part of the issue.
- Pressed start/stop button twice - No lights on gauges (Diffuser on multi-function display is crinkled...new one arrives Friday, so no idea if that is coming on).
- Pressed start/stop button 5x, nothing. However, buzzer is roasted. New one arrives Friday.

Currently thinking something is going on with the MPEM, but that's just speculatory at this point. Next step is to verify module is getting power and replacing buzzer to see if she's talking at all.

We've got family coming in this week/weekend, so I likely won't be back on this until Sunday/early next week.

--Andrew

 

[etemplet]

Good plans my brother !!! Hit that beyotch from all sides !!!