RESTO Winter Project!

[Girkyman]

Hi All,

New to the forum but have been non-logged in creeping since I got the idea to pick up a few PWC's. I have never owned a PWC before but I love wrenching on my own stuff.

Found a pair of XP Limiteds with a trailer for (what i thought was) a good deal so I went for it. Got them home and made room for them in the garage so I can work over the winter and had something interesting happen on the first thing I tried.

According to the previous owner they were running in August when they rode them on a small lake. She indicated one was running "rough" but still ran and the other was fine. The family lost interest so she was moving on from them. She put new batteries in them and 2 brand new covers she gave me still in the bag.

On the first boat, which was the one that she said was running good, first thing I tried was to turn it over after I topped off the batteries and it wouldn't turn over. I pulled the plugs to see what was going on and when I clicked that start button it turned over this time, and brown, murky water shot out of both cylinders. I was hoping to not have to do engine rebuilds but thought maybe a top end would be needed due to the age of these things. I have yet to try to start the second one

I'm going to start disassembly soon but I just wanted to throw this out there to a well informed crowd and get some opinions on what direction I should take to make sure I get a reliable boat after this rebuild and to see how deep I might have to go as far as fixing this "water" issue and also any thoughts on what might have caused both cylinders to fill up with quite a good amount of water (the picture is right after it happened but it shot out hard and bounced off the side of the engine bay and got all over me) The engine did turn over so I turned it over a few more time until nothing came out then I blew some air in there to clear out any remaining water.

My Next step was going to pulling the carbs (in anticipation of a rebuild), pulling the exhaust, and finally the heads to get a look at what damage that water caused, and then see how everything else looks from there.

I plan on updating this thread with progress and pics and hopefully by the time the nice weather rolls around I'll be out on the water enjoying them!

Thanks,

Jared

 

[DanSquires]

if there's water sitting in a 951, just rebuild it. These are the most high strung of all 2 stroke Sea Doo engines, and when they blow up they like to leave windows in cases. Old cranks with any abnormal wear (water) don't typically put up with new top end power, so just save yourself the time and money and do the rebuilds.
Be sure to rebuild the carbs while you're at it, do pro-k's and rejet for some cheap horsepower, go from there.

 

[Girkyman]

Thanks for the Reply,

I will research the lower end rebuild as well. Any obvious signs of a crank that needs replacing rather than a rebuild with new seals, etc? The difference in total cost would be substantial is why I ask. I'm guessing I would need something like this as far as a gasket kit for rebuilding.

Any ideas as to how this much water got deposited in the cylinders? My first thought was they rolled it in the water and didn't re-board it correctly and it didn't start so they threw it on the trailer and forgot about it.

Thanks Again!

 

[mikidymac]

You can't rebuild the cranks yourself because they are pressed together and have to be trued with special equipment.
If water has been sitting in it, which it has the crank bearings are rusted and the pitted bearings acts like sandpaper when running and will eat the bearings up quickly and violently when it throws a rod out the side of the cases.

The only way water got in is either...
1. A leaking joint between the pipe and exhaust manifold (research 951 pipe diaper) can spray water into the carbs but it looks like you have the correct rubber flaps that help this.
2. Someone flushed the ski with the engine off and the hose running water that fills up the exhaust and then into the engine.
3. Water was in the engine compartment and got sucked into the carbs. This is why I don't recommend aftermarket air cleaners on the 951 unless you never roll your ski over, don't let anyone ride your ski but you and you really know what you are doing. The 951 has the carbs mounted really low and can't tolerate any water ingestion and the stock airbox does a pretty good job of keeping water out. Aftermarket filters are a direct path for water into the 951.

You will need a full rebuild, top and bottom, gaskets, seals, carb and fuel system rebuild and new reeds.

 

[Girkyman]

Great info, thanks for the reply.

I will have to start tearing this thing apart and see what I find.

 

[NickCawks]

Welcome to the forums and welcome to the best and and sometimes most frustrating purchase you have ever made!

Good advice above, these guys are both a wealth of useful information as I'm sure you have noted in your forum lurking.

I have nothing more to add to their thoughts, but wanted to welcome you and say congrats on getting some of what I consider to be the baddest assed skis sea-doo made during the great and revered 2-smoke era.

 

[Girkyman]

Appreciate it.

I've ridden 2 strokes my whole life and have always wanted to get a watercraft with one.

Excited to get working on these things. Stay tuned!

 

[GGuillot]

Appreciate it.

I've ridden 2 strokes my whole life and have always wanted to get a watercraft with one.

Excited to get working on these things. Stay tuned!

It's very rewarding rebuilding and then going ride. I did this to a couple skis I acquired and now enjoy them trouble free. As mentioned, with water in the engine that sat just do a full rebuild. Don't skip going through the carbs and the fuel system, these skis are very sensitive to fuel delivery problems. Any problems with it leaning you'll cook a cylinder.

Follow the service manual to the tee, and don't get to depressed as the costs racks up, and it will, you'll hit $1000+ in the blink of an eye.

Ask questions when in doubt...

 

[Girkyman]

I'll be sure to reach out if needed.

I planned on putting $1k into each boat when I got the pair so we'll see how that works out. I still have yet to try starting the second one, haha.

I need to order a manual now that you mention it. Thanks!

 

[GGuillot]

I'll be sure to reach out if needed.

I planned on putting $1k into each boat when I got the pair so we'll see how that works out. I still have yet to try starting the second one, haha.

I need to order a manual now that you mention it. Thanks!

Not necessary, you can download at SeaDoo Manuals - FREE PDF Download!

 

[Girkyman]

I already have this PDF download on my phone but there's something about having a book to throw around in the shop. Plus I found one on eBay for $12. [emoji106]

 

[Girkyman]

Spent a half a day today and managed to get the engine out.

Overall process was pretty easy hardest part was removing the bolts on the carburetor because even though they were fully loose they were still stuck in the block...took me the better part of an hour to get the carb freed but once we did everything else went quick.

Next step is starting to think about the rebuild. Any recommendations would be appreciated. I'm probably looking to send out my engine as a whole and have it rebuilt completely. Obviously that would be the easiest solution but let me know if there are other options I don't mind putting a little elbow grease in myself and saving some money.

On the picture below that shows the close-up of the starter there's a small nipple that comes out of the crankcase and when I got that out up on the bench I had a ton of water pour out of there... Wasn't sure if that was supposed to be filled with water or not.

Making progress....

 

[NickCawks]

I advocate for sending the motor off because you generally get a warranty with it. Both SBT and SES offer a 2 year no fault warranty which is quite the safety net. However there has been a lot of issues with turnaround time lately from a lot of companies and many people in this forum have been frustrated with this. You may get lucky and the delayed turnaround can be offset since it's is winter time, we have seen some people waiting 6-8 months which could potentially land you in summer time.

Unless you have a local shop to go to you will likely end up sending the top end off anyway.

Just my two cents. I've rebuilt them myself and ordered a whole motor. I really enjoyed doing the work myself, but I had access to a local shop for the top end work. There's a lot to be said about those warranties though. When something goes wrong and it's someone else's problem it's nice. I made use of the warranty on my 720 this summer and was very thankful.

 

[Girkyman]

Great thanks for the info.

I reached out to SES and he said his current lead time would put it at the end of March which seems very reasonable with a good amount of buffer in case that slips.

I'll be sending it out this week. I'll keep everyone posted!

Now onto the next one.

 

[mikidymac]

You have been officially warned about SES and FullBore at this point. I wouldn't expect your engine back by summer if their past history is any indication.
Their actual work is good but their return times and customer communication has been horrible.

 

[Girkyman]

I've read the previous posts for sure. I understand the issues people are dealing with and I hope I have a big enough buffer built in, haha.

Thanks for the info tho I appreciate it.

 

[NickCawks]

Definitely take SES's turnaround quotes with a grain of salt.

That said Tom is a good guy and does good work

 

[Girkyman]

I did run into a snag yesterday prepping this thing for shipment. The last thing I removed was the exhaust manifold and one of the longer screws gave me a hell of a time. I hit it with p blaster and some heat and got nowhere. Tom said he would get it off for me but wow is that thing stuck. The others came out easy. That being said I have poked around on Sea-Doo parts and most of the small parts are not available for order. What is the best way to track down individual bolts and things that I need to replace. The exhaust bolt is a Socket Head M10 X 110. Should I just hit McMaster?

Also the crank area of the engine was completely filled up with water as well. Everything still turns but when I tilted the engine I probably got an additional half a gallon out of it.

Once I get this engine shipped out the next step is to start on the other boat to see what surprises that has for me.

All I can do is hope Tom doesn't take until September. I'm just looking forward to having reliable boats that I can use for years.

More updates to come!

 

[NickCawks]

You should source the bolt from a sea-doo parts store or call nick over as west side power sports.

The bolts are aluminum and anything you get from the store isn't going to be.

I usually have good luck with riva RIVA MOTORSPORTS Sea Doo PWC Parts Finder

 

[Girkyman]

Great, thanks for the info.

 

[mikidymac]

You should source the bolt from a sea-doo parts store or call nick over as west side power sports.

The bolts are aluminum and anything you get from the store isn't going to be.

I usually have good luck with riva RIVA MOTORSPORTS Sea Doo PWC Parts Finder

The bolts are stainless..... You know they aren't aluminum, LOL.

 

[NickCawks]

That's interesting. I've many times tried to retrieve them with a magnet when dropped in the hull and they have never stuck. I have no other evidence than that, maybe they are some sort of alloy, but It'd be news to me that stainless steel is no longer magnetic.

Wish I was home I'd go try it right now to make sure I haven't lost my mind, but it has been one of the most frustrating things when working on these skis for me that they won't stick to a magnet. Only the ones that I bought from ace will stick

 

[mikidymac]

Stainless is basically non-magnetic.

304 stainless steel contains chromium (min. 18%), and nickel (min. 8%). It is an austenite steel and is only slightly responsive to magnetic fields. It also contains 18 – 20% chromium and 8-10.50% nickel, and lesser quantities of some other elements.

316 stainless steel is a molybdenum-alloyed steel. The fact that it is also negligibly responsive to magnetic fields means that it can be used in applications where a non-magnetic metal is required. It also contains a number of other elements in varying concentrations.

 

[Girkyman]

Mcmaster it is! Lol

 

[GGuillot]

All I can do is hope Tom doesn't take until September.

Just an observation if you want to get on the water faster....but I'd say if you want to be on the water sometime this Summer, you should break it up and do the majority of it yourself. Avoid sending out for a full engine rebuild, it's a slow walk getting it back. Quicker option, the cylinders can be sent out and that's usually a quicker turn around than waiting on an entire engine build. There's people on here and on the FB that have waited over a year to get an engine back from SES or Fullbore.

You can purchase the gasket set, get a new crank or core swap, that leaves you awaiting the cylinders to return. The cylinders would be bored/honed and ready for assembly with the new pistons.

Not hard work, you follow along in the SM and ask questions on here.