Water leaking from bellows

[powerslave]

My 96 gti. Just replace wear ring, seal. Ran great for about 2 hrs. Then noticed saturday morning water in hull. Cavatated real bad sometimes and other times ran great. But when I moved the bellows around a bit, water would come in hard. I am going to move the bellows in a bit and apply some zip ties to try to keep it sealed tighter. Made a video to show and ask a few more questions. Not sure if I should just buy new parts and what exactly I should buy besides the carbon ring. Thanks for the help.

[video]http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x129/powerslave_2002/?action=view&current=2012-05-28_21-12-51_446.mp4[/video]

 

[Thumper3322]

Ya looks loose, ring looks in good shape tho. I'm not sure how to tighten it up, other guys can tell you. But that leaking will cause cavitation.

 

[Dr Honda]

Looks fine to me. The carbon seal floats on the end of the boot. We told you before, if you push on the seal, in the water... water will gush in. You are opening the seal... so what would you expect it to do?

Bad cavitation is from air... so... is there a hole in the carbon seal boot somewhere? Are the clamps tight? (don't over tighten the one at the seal, you could crush it)

From the vid... it sounds like the stainless ring is moving. is that correct? If it is... that's where you problem is at.

The zip ties in the boot will help seal it up if you dont' have any other mechanical probs with the seal.

 

[powerslave]

Looks fine to me. The carbon seal floats on the end of the boot. We told you before, if you push on the seal, in the water... water will gush in. You are opening the seal... so what would you expect it to do?

Bad cavitation is from air... so... is there a hole in the carbon seal boot somewhere? Are the clamps tight? (don't over tighten the one at the seal, you could crush it)

From the vid... it sounds like the stainless ring is moving. is that correct? If it is... that's where you problem is at.

The zip ties in the boot will help seal it up if you dont' have any other mechanical probs with the seal.

Thanks. I will look closer at the stainless ring and see if that is the problem. Thanks for the reminder about moving the seal.

 

[Dr Honda]

Sorry if I came off a little harsh... I was dealing with a baby, and didn't have coffee yet. (lol)

 

[mikidymac]

This is a question for Dr. Honda but some of the older skis use an o-ring to hold the stainless ring in place but the newer ones changes to a metal c-clip. I have seen the older o-ring ones roll the ring and not hold the stainless ring in the correct location. Can these o-rings be replaced with the c-clip? I have never tried it.

 

[Dr Honda]

This is a question for Dr. Honda but some of the older skis use an o-ring to hold the stainless ring in place but the newer ones changes to a metal c-clip. I have seen the older o-ring ones roll the ring and not hold the stainless ring in the correct location. Can these o-rings be replaced with the c-clip? I have never tried it.

Yep... absolutely.

Actually... it was a change that seadoo put out. SO... if your carbon seal was ever serviced by a dealer... that O-ring should have been swapped.

I can't say I've seen the O-ring "Roll"... I normally see them split, and fall off.

 

[mikidymac]

I think they get old and shrink a little or split like you said. My little SP project has the o-ring so I will order a clip.

 

[griz400]

here is what i put in my ski, its the "firm " boot, and the oem carbon seal, works like the cats ass, had out 2 times since, 1 time 8hrs, 1 time 7 hrs, no leaks, its a little harder to install than an original size, this one is about 1/4 inch longer
http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_...d=3358&zenid=16e0a8f2d931657b88a1b5493c8ba7c6

 

[powerslave]

Sorry if I came off a little harsh... I was dealing with a baby, and didn't have coffee yet. (lol)

It's all good. On question, shouldn't the CAILLAU CLICK CLAMP be more exposed than it is in my picture? At times it is half ass showing on one side of the boot. Not sure if that rubber boot moves in and out normally. As of now, I will install the c clip in replace of the O ring but the seal carrier is not even up against the O ring as of now to apply pressure. Sorry if this is question has come up but couldn't narrow it down in a search.



Also, when moving the bellows forward, I have a seal I noticed. Won't water leak in there if the seal is not tight up against the drive shaft hole and bellows?

 

[jamesbern]

Grease! Judging by the last photo you need to grease the boot. Hook up a grease gun and use synthetic grease. You should see the boot move. One to three pumps should be good depending on how much grease was in there to begin with.

 

[powerslave]

Grease! Judging by the last photo you need to grease the boot. Hook up a grease gun and use synthetic grease. You should see the boot move. One to three pumps should be good depending on how much grease was in there to begin with.

I just greased it good last night. Stopped greasing when I saw it coming out of boot. About 3 pumps full.

 

[powerslave]

I noticed also that when I pull the carrier back, I have 2 O rings. I notice 2 O rings on the parts diagram but I am unsure if those are covered by the carbon ring and you cant see them or if they are covered by the carrier seal. Do I have 2 grooves that I can put this C clip or is there just one. I know originally there are 3 O rings, wondering if I am just unable to see the 2 that might be covered by the ring and that there are 2 grooves to put this C clip and I can use either one and since there are 2 grooves for it seadoo just put 2 O rings there.?? I don't think I'm comprehending this correctly.

 

[powerslave]

Pic of what I'm seeing...

 

[mikidymac]

There are three o-rings, 2 small ones that are inside grooves in the stainless part that you are sliding back and the larger one that you can see in the picture that you just posted. The large one you can see is the one that should have been replaced with the metal c-clip. If you can remove the large one in your picture with an x-acto knife or something you can just snap the new c-clip in.

Correct me if i am wrong but I do not think the zip ties should be around the bellows. I think you are suposed to loosen the rear hose clamp and slide it forward to put more tension on the seal and the zip tie goes on the space that was left by sliding the boot and clamp forward just so that it can not creep back to its origional position like a spacer. Dr. Honda?

 

[powerslave]

As far as the O rings, I only see 2 of them. They both look to be the same size.

 

[mikidymac]

Looking at your las picture it is hard to tell but I only see one and is indicated by the arrow on the left. The arrow on the right looks like it is pointing to the end of the PTO boot that is squeezed by the PTO clamp, not an o-ring. The two small o-rings are in machined grooves on the inside of the stainless flange so unless it is removed from the drive shaft you should not be able to see them. If they are bad it will leak too because they are the only thing preventing water from entering between the driveshaft and stainless sleeve.

 

[powerslave]

That other is an O ring too. That is what is confusing me

 

[powerslave]

Looking at your las picture it is hard to tell but I only see one and is indicated by the arrow on the left. The arrow on the right looks like it is pointing to the end of the PTO boot that is squeezed by the PTO clamp, not an o-ring. The two small o-rings are in machined grooves on the inside of the stainless flange so unless it is removed from the drive shaft you should not be able to see them. If they are bad it will leak too because they are the only thing preventing water from entering between the driveshaft and stainless sleeve.

nope! You're right, it's part of the boot.

 

[griz400]

you got 2 things i see, 1 is too much grease in pto boot, should only bulge slightly
also, looks like you have no metal c clip, c clip is used to hold collar against the carbone seal, put c clip in groove closest to carbone seal, this will give you good pressure on it, also, cut off those tie straps, take clamp off closest to hull, this will let you work on it good, and you will be able to move collar farther, some drive shaft even have 3 grooves, take boot clamp off by hull, and 2 ties straps, move back and take another pic, ok ???

 

[powerslave]

you got 2 things i see, 1 is too much grease in pto boot, should only bulge slightly
also, looks like you have no metal c clip, c clip is used to hold collar against the carbone seal, put c clip in groove closest to carbone seal, this will give you good pressure on it, also, cut off those tie straps, take clamp off closest to hull, this will let you work on it good, and you will be able to move collar farther, some drive shaft even have 3 grooves, take boot clamp off by hull, and 2 ties straps, move back and take another pic, ok ???

Here is the pic...

 

[griz400]

does it fit tighter now with the metal clip ??? what i mean, at the carbon seal ?

 

[griz400]

pull it back farther, i bet there is another groove, thats why i said to take the rear clamp, all the way off

 

[powerslave]

Dosen't seem to. Seems like the ring fits over it in the same spot as the O ring. Does moving the bellows toward the front of the hull a half inch help seal? I was worried about the seal against the bellows and the hull not sealing and letting water in.

 

[mikidymac]

That looks like it should be but as Griz said it looks like it is too easy to slide the stainless piece back on the bellows. That is correct, the clip goes on the same groove as the o-ring. I have never seen any with more than 1 groove for the clip but I claim to be no expert. The ones I have done it is a bit$& to slide the stainless piece against the bellow pressure to get the clip in and yours has so much room. Looks like you might not have enough pressure from the bellows to keep the carbon seal against the stainless ring. Is it possible your driveshaft is missing the rubber bumpers and not allowing the shaft to be in the correct location like too far back or forward?