Typical Running Voltage

[10forty2]

Got stranded last year with a dead battery and no indication except for the dash light coming on about 30 seconds before the engines died. I'm installing a voltage gauge this year, but don't know what to anticipate for the typical output of the charging rectifier so I can know if it's actually charging or not. I am guessing that it should be in the 13-14 VDC range while the engines are running, but am not sure if that is typical on these boats.

Anyone?

 

[JPass]

My repair manual for our 2012 210 shows magneto output at 360W @ 6000 RPM. Not sure how that converts to voltage, but being that our boats run on a 12V system, you should be seeing roughly 14 V going to your battery with the engine running if your charging system is in good working order.

Our 210 has a voltage gauge in the dash so I can see the voltage when the engine is running.

How old is your current battery?

 

[10forty2]

My repair manual for our 2012 210 shows magneto output at 360W @ 6000 RPM. Not sure how that converts to voltage, but being that our boats run on a 12V system, you should be seeing roughly 14 V going to your battery with the engine running if your charging system is in good working order.

Our 210 has a voltage gauge in the dash so I can see the voltage when the engine is running.

How old is your current battery?

Need to know the amperage in order to calculate how much voltage 360watts is producing. Wattage/Current=Voltage if I remember my electronic engineering days. The battery was bought new in late September of last year after the old one failed. The previous owner had replaced the rectifier on the port engine, and I found a 30amp fuse in the charging circuit that had blown and melted in the fuse holder. Apparently that's not uncommon with these boats because I found out about it from a post in Green Hulk forums. Got all that repaired with a new fuse-holder/fuse and replaced the battery, but didn't get another chance to get out on the water and run it before the season ended. I ran the engines for about 30 seconds in the driveway and my volt-meter read right at 13.5 VDC at the battery terminals so I am assuming the rectifiers are charging at this point. I don't have a flush valve yet, so I was scared to run it any longer than that.

 

[Gordo]

I plugged in an inexpensive made in china ebay gauge directly to the cigarette lighter location. I get 13.5 V when the engine is running and 12V when it is not. This is an easy way to check if the magneto is working when the engine is running.

 

[JPass]

13.5 is good. Do you turn off the power at the battery switch between outings? You could have a small parasitic drain.

 

[Gordo]

13.5 is good. Do you turn off the power at the battery switch between outings? You could have a small parasitic drain.

I always turn off the battery switch when the boat is not in use. I am a little paranoid regarding a potential drained battery while on the water. I keep a lithium Ion portable small booster battery on the boat.

 

[10forty2]

13.5 is good. Do you turn off the power at the battery switch between outings? You could have a small parasitic drain.

I keep the battery switch off as well, when not on the water. And, because I was warned that the bilge pump will run regardless of the battery switch, it is unhooked as well. Going to replace it with one that is not automatic. I'll never leave the boat in the water if I'm not in it for any period of time and it is stored under a shed roof, so standing water is not an issue. If I take on water when I'm running, I can just flip the switch and dump it! I've been seriously considering adding a second battery to run the sound system and for backup, just in case.

 

[JPass]

I keep the battery switch off as well, when not on the water. And, because I was warned that the bilge pump will run regardless of the battery switch, it is unhooked as well. Going to replace it with one that is not automatic. I'll never leave the boat in the water if I'm not in it for any period of time and it is stored under a shed roof, so standing water is not an issue. If I take on water when I'm running, I can just flip the switch and dump it! I've been seriously considering adding a second battery to run the sound system and for backup, just in case.

Not sure I'd replace the auto bilge with a manual. What if you spring a leak and are unaware of it (forgotten drain plug, carbon seal/boot failure)? I once forgot the drain plug in our previous boat. Had no idea until water came up through the floor. I was able to switch the manual bilge and get the drain plug in (direct drive boat) before I fully swamped the boat, but it scared the hell outta me. Apparently the auto bilge wasn't working, if it was, I would have seen water pumping out long before it filled the entire bilge and came up through the floor. I quickly replaced the faulty pump.

I've also been caught in a few bad thunderstorms in our current boat where the boat was flooded with rain. The auto bilge kicked in and ran for quite a while eve after the heavy rains let up. Quite a bit of water in the bilge and ski locker even with the bimini up.

I've also considered getting a 2nd, bigger bilge as a back-up just in case.

 

[studiocat13]

I keep the battery switch off as well, when not on the water. And, because I was warned that the bilge pump will run regardless of the battery switch, it is unhooked as well. Going to replace it with one that is not automatic. I'll never leave the boat in the water if I'm not in it for any period of time and it is stored under a shed roof, so standing water is not an issue. If I take on water when I'm running, I can just flip the switch and dump it! I've been seriously considering adding a second battery to run the sound system and for backup, just in case.

The secondary battery was definitely a big consideration for me when I first bought me bought and I'm glad I took the plunge and made it happen. I installed a Blue Seas Mini-Add a Battery Plus kit and new Interstate Deep Cell battery and couldn't be happier. Not only can I run the stereo all day with no worries of draining the start battery but the system manages the battery charging of both batteries during run time as well s when I'm at home by easily connecting it to AC Power over night. You can also combine the batteries in an emergency situation. Takes a little work to install but certainly worth it !

 

[10forty2]

So, I installed a voltage gauge yesterday, and when running the engines in the yard, (one at a time), I noticed that the port engine was showing about 13VDC at around 3K RPMS, but the starboard engine was steady at 12V at the same. I haven't run it on the water yet, so I don't know if it will put out more than that at a higher RPM, but I wold think I should expect about the same output for both engines. The port rectifier was replaced prior to my owning it, but the starboard rectifier is still the original. I do have a new one for that engine from the previous owner. I guess the best thing to do would be to go ahead and replace it.

Thoughts?

 

[OG1]

Test the stator output (Three yellow wires) for the low engine. If its at 12v running it is not charging. Testing the stator will tell you if it is that or possibly the regulator further downstream. I can find the test procedure if you dont have a manual. hopefully its the regulator because the stator is a much more involved fix.

 

[OG1]

Stator

STATIC TEST: CONTINUITY

Disconnect the magneto wiring harness connector

and probe the three connectors.

1. Check resistance between two of the YELLOW

wires. The resistance should be between 0.1 to

1.0 ohm.


2. Place either meter lead into the remaining YELLOW

wire and note the resistance (same as

step no. 1). If the readings are out of specification,

the stator will need to be replaced.


STATIC TEST: INSULATION

Disconnect the magneto wiring harness connector

and probe the three connectors.

1. Insert multimeter positive (+) probe to one of

the YELLOW wires of the 3-pin magneto harness

adapter.

2. Ground the multimeter negative (-) probe to the

engine or the stator iron core and note the reading.

TYPICAL

1. Multimeter

2. Magneto harness adapter

3. Positive (+) probe to YELLOW wire

4. Negative (-) probe to ground

3. Repeat test with the other two YELLOW wires

of the 3-pin magneto harness adapter.

NOTE: There should be no continuity (infinity) between

the magneto insulated coils and ground. If

there is a reading, the magneto coils and/or the

wiring from the coils is grounded and needs to be

replaced or repaired.

DYNAMIC TEST

Disconnect the magneto wiring harness connector

and probe the three connectors.

1. Connect the test probes of the multimeter to

two of the YELLOW wires of the 3-pin magneto

harness adapter.

2. Set multimeter to Vac scale.

3. Start and rev engine to 3500 RPM. The obtained

value should be approximately 25 Vac.

4. If the magneto is out of specification, replace it.

 

[anthonymsaad]

Test the stator output (Three yellow wires) for the low engine. If its at 12v running it is not charging. Testing the stator will tell you if it is that or possibly the regulator further downstream. I can find the test procedure if you dont have a manual. hopefully its the regulator because the stator is a much more involved fix.

Out of curiosity, if the stator does have a grounding issues, would the only problem be that it is unable to charge the batteries? Could there be any other additional problems caused by a damaged stator, such as parasitic draws, some form of back feeding, or when the engines are off it remains connected to the batteries and remains powered?

I'm trying to learn more and understand how the charging system works and rectifier, beyond normal operations. Like how is everything wired and connected and what the result would be if certain parts of it failed. In a twin engine setup, If one charging system goes bad, could the other charging system compensate for everything or enough to power main systems but may struggle adequately powering some accessory systems.

 

[OG1]

Out of curiosity, if the stator does have a grounding issues, would the only problem be that it is unable to charge the batteries? Could there be any other additional problems caused by a damaged stator, such as parasitic draws, some form of back feeding, or when the engines are off it remains connected to the batteries and remains powered?

I'm trying to learn more and understand how the charging system works and rectifier, beyond normal operations. Like how is everything wired and connected and what the result would be if certain parts of it failed. In a twin engine setup, If one charging system goes bad, could the other charging system compensate for everything or enough to power main systems but may struggle adequately powering some accessory systems.

A single engine can’t produce enough to really run both engines electrical needs (fuel pump etc) and any accessory loads long term. What you would have is a voltage losing system and constant full load on the remaining good stator, eventually leading to two dead stators...

 

[anthonymsaad]

A single engine can’t produce enough to really run both engines electrical needs (fuel pump etc) and any accessory loads long term. What you would have is a voltage losing system and constant full load on the remaining good stator, eventually leading to two dead stators...

Thank you for that, that is what I believed to be the case. That said, do you know how exactly or in what ways would the second stator die? As you mentioned it was a voltage losing system, would that indicate that, besides overall voltage drop on the system from ~14V to ~12.5V, would that necessarily damage other components and strain out the stator? Or would the exposure to a constant full load result in a higher than normal current draw, potentially damaging wires?

 

[OG1]

Thank you for that, that is what I believed to be the case. That said, do you know how exactly or in what ways would the second stator die? As you mentioned it was a voltage losing system, would that indicate that, besides overall voltage drop on the system from ~14V to ~12.5V, would that necessarily damage other components and strain out the stator? Or would the exposure to a constant full load result in a higher than normal current draw, potentially damaging wires?

The full load will eventually burn out the stator yes.

 

[OG1]

Just hope it’s the regulator, that is the more common failure part. Stator is a tough job. Gotta pull the pump and the PTO apart to get to it.

 

[anthonymsaad]

I was reading about replacing the Stator and it looks like a nightmare for someone like me. How would you identify a damaged regulator/rectifier? Low voltage? I personally would try to connect an oscilloscope to see if I can detect the 3 phase waveform. Not sure if they get damaged due to high loads or more randomly and age. I remember going through the shop manual, can't remember which sections, but noticing multiple exceptions for the challenger 210. Besides air intake system, there was something unique regarding having 3 wires for the neutral switch, but only using 2, while the other models used 1, except the speedster 200 which uses 2.

 

[OG1]

Rectifier/Regulator

STATIC TEST: CONTINUITY

Due to internal circuitry, no static test can be done.

DYNAMIC TEST

Current Test

Proceed as follows:

– Start engine.

– Lay an inductive ammeter on positive cable of

battery.

– Bring engine to approximately 6000 RPM.

Current reading should be approximately 5 amperes,

depending on battery state. If not, check

magneto output prior to concluding that rectifier is

faulty.

Voltage Test

Proceed as follows:

– Set multimeter to Vdc scale. Connect a multimeter

to battery posts. Connect RED test lead to

positive (+) and BLACK lead to negative (-) battery

posts.

– Note the battery voltage. A fully-charged battery

should read approximately 12.6 vdc.

– Bring engine to approximately 5500 RPM.

If multimeter reads over 15 volts, regulator is defective.

Replace it.

If the voltage reading does not rise above battery

voltage indicated previously, the system is not

charging.

NOTE: If distilled water must continually be added,

it indicates an over voltage situation requiring replacement

of the rectifier/regulator. If, on the other

hand, the battery does not stay charged, the problem

can come from any of the charging circuit components.

If these all check good, it would be accurate

to assume the problem comes from the rectifier/regulator.

 

[OG1]

Oddly enough I had my boat out for the first time of the season this weekend. Noticed battery voltage didn’t seem to be coming up as high as it usually does when running to recharge from stereo drain on second battery. Isolated it out that the port side engine wasn’t charging. I always carry a multimeter with me so I started troubleshooting it and found my 30a fuse holder badly corroded and the fuse failed. Cleaned it up and popped a new fuse in it and it’s charging again. Thankfully that is the easiest possible fix.

 

[studiocat13]

Oddly enough I had my boat out for the first time of the season this weekend. Noticed battery voltage didn’t seem to be coming up as high as it usually does when running to recharge from stereo drain on second battery. Isolated it out that the port side engine wasn’t charging. I always carry a multimeter with me so I started troubleshooting it and found my 30a fuse holder badly corroded and the fuse failed. Cleaned it up and popped a new fuse in it and it’s charging again. Thankfully that is the easiest possible fix.

Great news OG1 ! Glad you were able to resolve and thanks for sharing as we may all encounter this at some point down the road.

 

[anthonymsaad]

Likewise, thank you for sharing!

 

[10forty2]

So an update on my voltage/charging dilemma.... I put the boat in the water last week and ran it to see if all was good....first time in the water since rebuilding the superchargers and installing a voltage meter in the dash. Cranked right up and at first, the meter showed around 12.5 volts. After running around close to the boat ramp in case anything was wrong, it appeared to be holding, so I thought..okay, it's all good. I take off for a longer, higher rpm run. Got to having fun and didn't pay attention to the meter.....after about 30 minutes, I noticed that the meter was down to 12 volts. I stopped, revved the port engine and the voltage increased slightly......revved the starboard engine, and no increase. So, I head back to the ramp. Pul it out, and think on it for a bit, and decide to replace the starboard engine rectifier with the spare I had from the previous owner...who had also previously replaced the port engine rectifier. Put it back in the water, start her up and at idle, the meter is reading 13.8-14volts. I run around the cove, and the meter stays steady at 13.8 volts. I head out into the channel and run her up to top speed for about 5 minutes....meter stayed put at 13.8 volts. Cut the engines off and the meter dropped to around 13 volts and stayed there until I turned on the blower and it only dropped to 12volts until I cranked the engines and right back up to 13.8.

So....I'm thinking at this point, the rest of our July 4th vacation will be spent on the water in our now-repaired boat AND be able to listen to the stereo without worrying about killing the battery and getting stranded! Yea!!!

Oh, and the supercharger rebuild service from PWC?? VERY pleased with how everything is running. Engines sound and run as smooth as a seweing machine and have plenty of power! She practically jumps out of the water on takeoff. If I keep her past this season, I'll probably replace the wear rings and then be done with service, I hope!

 

[studiocat13]

"So....I'm thinking at this point, the rest of our July 4th vacation will be spent on the water in our now-repaired boat AND be able to listen to the stereo without worrying about killing the battery and getting stranded! Yea!!!"

That's great news 10forty2 ! Thanks for the update and enjoy the 4th Holiday !!

 

[rambunctious]

I tested the rectifier under idle/rev and it maintianed 12.2 volts
so I orderd a new (aftermarket) rectifier
replaced, started the engine, and AGAIN no voltage raise.
I checke the yellow (stator) AC voltages and saw 30VAC+ when revving
what is up !!!!!