lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Maybe so... I just thought the normal rattle can't be heard or felt in the water...
And it's still noticeable with a little throttle.
And it's still noticeable with a little throttle.
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Test run results since pump rebuild on 96 challenger
- Thread starter lilngineer
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You can't hear an impeller hitting the wear ring on a Sea-Doo.
While it's vibrating, look at the carbon ring.
Chester
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I checked the carbon ring and it's definitely not there. It's riding nice and smooth there.
Couldn't the impeller hit the wear ring if the shaft were warped?
Couldn't the impeller hit the wear ring if the shaft were warped?
Impeller hitting wear ring
If the impeller hits the ring so hard you are hearing a knock you will see it for sure. Is the wear ring marked up pretty bad? If not then i would say not hitting. Get in there with a feeler gauge and move the shaft up and down and spin a full 360 to check for bearing play and shaft not being true.
If the impeller hits the ring so hard you are hearing a knock you will see it for sure. Is the wear ring marked up pretty bad? If not then i would say not hitting. Get in there with a feeler gauge and move the shaft up and down and spin a full 360 to check for bearing play and shaft not being true.
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I checked the wear ring and there is about 3 spots pretty much evenly spaced with some scrapes. The scrapes are not very deep, but I can feel a slight ridge on one of them with my finger right forward of where the impeller blade spins. (not interferring) Truthfully, I noticed these spots after I performed the first alignment and discovered the dark metallic oil in the pump. Since that time, I realigned since it was out and also replaced all 3 bearings (properly, no pinching, correct distances). The spots do not seem to have gotten any worse since then.
Visually, the shaft seems to spin true and the impeller has almost no play in any direction.
I now have the pump off the boat yet again, and reinspected everything. No scorring on the carbon ring, and the alignment is still good.
I am going to have my shaft measured today.
I will report back with my findings.
Visually, the shaft seems to spin true and the impeller has almost no play in any direction.
I now have the pump off the boat yet again, and reinspected everything. No scorring on the carbon ring, and the alignment is still good.
I am going to have my shaft measured today.
I will report back with my findings.
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lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Got the driveshaft measured. Deflection was 002". Well within spec so not the problem. The saga continues.
crazy
Thats crazy. I got the same boat and I have nothing like that. Do you have an oem pump on it? Does it have plastic or brass veins? are you using 2 shims on the top studs between the transom and your pump? If so, are those in place when you Align it? Does your alignment tool go all the way into the pto without deflection? For sure you motor mounts are good, no loose bolts there?
Thats crazy. I got the same boat and I have nothing like that. Do you have an oem pump on it? Does it have plastic or brass veins? are you using 2 shims on the top studs between the transom and your pump? If so, are those in place when you Align it? Does your alignment tool go all the way into the pto without deflection? For sure you motor mounts are good, no loose bolts there?
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I believe the pump is OEM. It's a plastic housing with brass veins.
I aligned the engine and installed the pump without the washers on the studs so I would get a nice flat and even seal between the pump and ride shoe. The tool also fully slid into the PTO.
Mounts are tight and torqued to spec.
You can see why I'm banging my head right?
I aligned the engine and installed the pump without the washers on the studs so I would get a nice flat and even seal between the pump and ride shoe. The tool also fully slid into the PTO.
Mounts are tight and torqued to spec.
You can see why I'm banging my head right?
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I've listened to the noise in the engine compartment while idling. It definitely sounds like it is coming from the opposite side of the hull (ie pump).
I also ran the engine with the pump off and did not hear it. Although, truthfully it's harder to detect out of water due to higher idle, thrust bearing and exhaust noise.
With regards to the grate, during the rebuild, I had it off and resealed it to the hull. It shouldn't be vibrating
Just to clarify, it's not a loud thud more like an intermittant vibration.
I also ran the engine with the pump off and did not hear it. Although, truthfully it's harder to detect out of water due to higher idle, thrust bearing and exhaust noise.
With regards to the grate, during the rebuild, I had it off and resealed it to the hull. It shouldn't be vibrating
Just to clarify, it's not a loud thud more like an intermittant vibration.
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lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I still have the pump apart as I have been busy recently and I have been trying to figure out what else could be causing the problem.
I was looking over the carbon ring while in the garage and I did notice some fine scratches on a small area og the I.D.
I am wondering if maybe the shaft is lightly hitting the carbon ring while near idle. I felt the outside while idling and couldn't feel anything though. I also started the engine with the pump on, but no boot, carbon ring or floating ring to check if the shaft hits the through-hull fitting.
If either of those things are actually happening, it is due to the pump washer shims being out.
I bought another neoprene seal so I think I am going to realign with the pump/engine shims, reassemble and test.
Otherwise, it has to be something to do with the solas/shaft interaction or is just a really noisy and rattling thrust bearing. But can you actually hear or feel them in the water??
I was looking over the carbon ring while in the garage and I did notice some fine scratches on a small area og the I.D.
I am wondering if maybe the shaft is lightly hitting the carbon ring while near idle. I felt the outside while idling and couldn't feel anything though. I also started the engine with the pump on, but no boot, carbon ring or floating ring to check if the shaft hits the through-hull fitting.
If either of those things are actually happening, it is due to the pump washer shims being out.
I bought another neoprene seal so I think I am going to realign with the pump/engine shims, reassemble and test.
Otherwise, it has to be something to do with the solas/shaft interaction or is just a really noisy and rattling thrust bearing. But can you actually hear or feel them in the water??
shims
The book will tell you to put the shims on if they came with the boat. Some had them and some did not. I always use a new neopreme seal when r&r pump and never had a leak there. $5.00 is cheap insurance for no sucking air
I use a little black rvt around the hole for the water inlet through the transom and thats it. Easy cleaning next time around. Please keep me posted.
The book will tell you to put the shims on if they came with the boat. Some had them and some did not. I always use a new neopreme seal when r&r pump and never had a leak there. $5.00 is cheap insurance for no sucking air
I use a little black rvt around the hole for the water inlet through the transom and thats it. Easy cleaning next time around. Please keep me posted.lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Sound Clip!
Since the problem is easier heard in the water, I took some recordings with my phone.
I finally got the chance to transfer them over. The file is an mp3, but it is labeled .zip so i could post it. Just remove the .zip from the name.
Please let me know what you think. If you listen closely, you can hear the idle is steady, but there is an erratic knock kind of noise that happens in addition to the idle. This noise happens in parallel with the vibration I feel in the floorboard.
Glen,
I know what you mean about the manual. I saw it in there myself. I was just trying to create the best seal between the hull and the shoe.
I'll let you know how things pan out.
Since the problem is easier heard in the water, I took some recordings with my phone.
I finally got the chance to transfer them over. The file is an mp3, but it is labeled .zip so i could post it. Just remove the .zip from the name.
Please let me know what you think. If you listen closely, you can hear the idle is steady, but there is an erratic knock kind of noise that happens in addition to the idle. This noise happens in parallel with the vibration I feel in the floorboard.
Glen,
I know what you mean about the manual. I saw it in there myself. I was just trying to create the best seal between the hull and the shoe.
I'll let you know how things pan out.
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Glen,
I'm away from the computer and posting from my phone. I will send via email in the morning.
Did you try to right click and save target as? Sometimes the OS wants to auto open zip files.
I'm away from the computer and posting from my phone. I will send via email in the morning.
Did you try to right click and save target as? Sometimes the OS wants to auto open zip files.
i can hear it now
Tried another one of my computers and figured it out. The first one I did not have show extentions setting on (default vista stuff). The second one I did so I was able to save as just .mp3
I can for sure here the thump. Does not sound like anything I have heard before. Hard to pin point this when not on the boat yourself. Did you try using an automotive stethoscope like this one;
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...uipment&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a
These will really help you locate the sound.
I can see why this would be annoying. Wish I had a better answer for you
Tried another one of my computers and figured it out. The first one I did not have show extentions setting on (default vista stuff). The second one I did so I was able to save as just .mp3
I can for sure here the thump. Does not sound like anything I have heard before. Hard to pin point this when not on the boat yourself. Did you try using an automotive stethoscope like this one;
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_...uipment&psid=FROOGLE01&sid=IDx20070921x00003a
These will really help you locate the sound.
I can see why this would be annoying. Wish I had a better answer for you
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Thanks
Glen,
Thanks for taking a listen for me. It really has me stumped too.
Do you think it could actually be the thrust bearing? Do you now see why I kept saying it sounds like the impeller hitting the wear ring?
Hopefully, I should be able to reassemble with shims and test today. I will let you know how I fair.
Glen,
Thanks for taking a listen for me. It really has me stumped too.
Do you think it could actually be the thrust bearing? Do you now see why I kept saying it sounds like the impeller hitting the wear ring?
Hopefully, I should be able to reassemble with shims and test today. I will let you know how I fair.
have no idea
I have no idea what could cause that noise. Sounds like more than a bad thrust washer though. But then again the sound can carry through the hull pretty good. Sounds like soemthing thumping on the boat for sure.
I have never had to use a stethoscope on a boat but have on trucks and cars. They really help pinpoint the noise. Maybe worth a shot.
I have no idea what could cause that noise. Sounds like more than a bad thrust washer though. But then again the sound can carry through the hull pretty good. Sounds like soemthing thumping on the boat for sure.
I have never had to use a stethoscope on a boat but have on trucks and cars. They really help pinpoint the noise. Maybe worth a shot.
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Pondering the thrust washer
Glen, I got the boat reassembled today with the shims on the pump and engine. I didn't get a chance to get out and test it though. I will try tomorrow.
I have to say you got me thinking about that thrust washer. I inspected and cleaned my original and reused it when I changed all 3 pump bearings. Could that be my problem after all this R&R I did on the pump a thousand times??
Since I have everything together I am going to try to test as is. If the vibration is still there, maybe I will try that next. Do you know if the thrust washer typically wears a lot??
Glen, I got the boat reassembled today with the shims on the pump and engine. I didn't get a chance to get out and test it though. I will try tomorrow.
I have to say you got me thinking about that thrust washer. I inspected and cleaned my original and reused it when I changed all 3 pump bearings. Could that be my problem after all this R&R I did on the pump a thousand times??
Since I have everything together I am going to try to test as is. If the vibration is still there, maybe I will try that next. Do you know if the thrust washer typically wears a lot??
thrust washer
If proper maintenace on the pump and no water gets in i think these will last for a long time. How many hours is on yours? Has it ever had water in the pump? Was it serviced every year? Did you measure back lash on the pump after assembly? if that is in spec then i doubt it would be the washer.
I am going to try canyon lake in the morning here in az tomorrow. Supose to have 20% chance for rain, partly cloudy, and high 80's. Not perfect but well see. May wait till Sunday. Sunny and 97 then
If proper maintenace on the pump and no water gets in i think these will last for a long time. How many hours is on yours? Has it ever had water in the pump? Was it serviced every year? Did you measure back lash on the pump after assembly? if that is in spec then i doubt it would be the washer.
I am going to try canyon lake in the morning here in az tomorrow. Supose to have 20% chance for rain, partly cloudy, and high 80's. Not perfect but well see. May wait till Sunday. Sunny and 97 then
lilngineer
Well-Known Member
Well just an update...
I realigned the engine and pump with the shims and took it out yesterday. Still had the rattle/vibration in the water.
So last night/today I took everything apart again to change out the thrust washer I never changed. Got everything back together for a test run and of course the problem is still there.
I am back to thinking it has something to do with the Solas impeller. I bought the solas in used, but like new condition. The impeller did not come with a boot. I did purchase a new boot, but it is stock. I am wondering if not using the solas designed boot may be causing the idle vibration? Any thoughts on this?
I still haven't tried an impelled swap yet so that may be in the near future. Honestly I am growing tired of tearing apart the pump and all the cleanup and resealing. I think I will order a solas boot and try it since it's an easy swap.
Still frustrated.
I realigned the engine and pump with the shims and took it out yesterday. Still had the rattle/vibration in the water.
So last night/today I took everything apart again to change out the thrust washer I never changed. Got everything back together for a test run and of course the problem is still there.
I am back to thinking it has something to do with the Solas impeller. I bought the solas in used, but like new condition. The impeller did not come with a boot. I did purchase a new boot, but it is stock. I am wondering if not using the solas designed boot may be causing the idle vibration? Any thoughts on this?
I still haven't tried an impelled swap yet so that may be in the near future. Honestly I am growing tired of tearing apart the pump and all the cleanup and resealing. I think I will order a solas boot and try it since it's an easy swap.
Still frustrated.
impeller boot
Not sure if that would cause the vibration but the boot is more than likley different. If it fit in the impeller nice and was snug around the shaft and all..... I think this is more for reducing air and cavitation than anything though. I have oem, nujet, and skat track, and they all have different boots.
Without reading all the post in this thread, did you test with pump off and it does not make the noise?
I bet you just want to
uke: after pulling the pump off so many times.
Not sure if that would cause the vibration but the boot is more than likley different. If it fit in the impeller nice and was snug around the shaft and all..... I think this is more for reducing air and cavitation than anything though. I have oem, nujet, and skat track, and they all have different boots.
Without reading all the post in this thread, did you test with pump off and it does not make the noise?
I bet you just want to
uke: after pulling the pump off so many times.lilngineer
Well-Known Member
I did try to test with the pump off, but I can't seem to make out the vibration with the pump on or off out of the water.
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