Test run results since pump rebuild on 96 challenger

Note: This site contains eBay affiliate links for which SeaDooForum.com may be compensated
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

lilngineer

Well-Known Member
Hi,

The weather was finally nice enough here to get the boat out for a test run since the pump overhaul.

FYI- I replaced:
-floating ring (plus O-rings)
-carbon ring
-impeller (Solas 14/22) plus boot
-wear ring
-neoprene seal
-pump shaft seal
-pump oil

I also resealed the ride shoe, realigned the engine, rebuilt the carbs and readjusted all the linkage.

The boat ran awesome - like a whole new boat! Jumps right out of the water and hit a top end of 53 on the speedo.

Previously the hole shot was very weak, and it topped out at 45 (speedo). So many thanks to all who helped!

I do have 1 concern however...

I noticed while idling back to the dock that I am getting quite a bit of noise from the back of the boat. Kind of a rattling/almost grinding kind of noise. It does disappear with throttle and is not noticable while driving at speeds above idle Would this be normal because of tight clearance on the pump impeller and wear ring (.010") and natural engine vibration? Or could this be a bearing issue? I did not replace the bearings, but I did inspect and clean them.

Any ideas/insight is appreciated.
 
53!!! I am only getting about 45 on GPS with my new impeller and brand new motor (just turned over 10 hours). It pops right up out of the hole, though. So I am not complaining.

Not sure what my pitch is.

Now that rattling sound has me worried. Normal when out of water, but shouldn't be there in the water....
 
Here's an update.

I decided to pull apart the pump and get a better look yesterday. When I drained the oil after less than 1 hour of driving on new oil and it was dark grey and metallic looking. So I figured the bearings must have been bad.

I disassembled the whole pump, replaced all three bearings, and reassembled.

Got it out for another test run and it seems quieter but is still intermittantly grinding, rattling, or vibrating while at idle (in and out of water). Runs and sounds great with any throttle above idle.

Now what? My only thoughts are that the alignment is still out or my pump cone is the problem (another post - no springs, wedges or pusher).

I'm getting ready to tear it apart once again. Please help!!
 
Hhhmm, you do have the thrust bearing and thrust washer installed properly correct? And you didn't pinch the bearing as you were reassembling it did you?
 
Yes, new thrust bearing was installed as described in the service manual. Greased on both sides and carefully centered with thrust washer during assembly.
 
IF...you decide to remove pump again/youdid...check the driveshaft for straitness....or ifalready did, scratch this post.
 
Yes, it would be a good idea to check for a bent driveshaft, although it would still vibrate at higher speeds.
I think that the carbon ring might be vibrating. Remove the PTO flywheel cover & see if that is what is causing the noise. If it is, try loosening the clamps and repositioning the protection hose. Did you replace the protection hose when you changed the carbon ring? It's always a good idea to replace them as a pair as the new protection hose put more pressure on the carbon ring.

Chester
 
Make sure you have the rubber stoppers on each end of the drive shaft and get an anti rattle cone. These things work. Mine had noise that sounded like rod knock at idle in the water and out. With new rubber stopers and anti rattle cone... noise all gone.
 
sounds like the standard seadoo pump knock on older seadoos, the new cone (anti rattle cone) will usually fix it or improve it, some people just turn up the idle so they don't have to listen to it, normally goes away around 1800 rpm.

it doesn't hurt anything and doesn't cause any premature wear, just sounds terrible. lots of seadoos built from the late 80s to late 90s had it. some are worse than others, does sound like a rod is knocking though.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well guys...

I still need to water test to confirm it, but I believe I've solved the problem. I took everything apart yet again and discovered the engine was still out of alignment. I did the alignment to begin with but I am thinking that maybe the plate wasn't sitting truely flat on the hull since it is such a tight fit on the studs.

Once I realigned, I didn't need any shims at all! The engine is sitting perfectly flat on the hull. I reassembled everything and started it out of water. So far, so good. No grinding noise at all. I didn't even hear the thrust bearing making noise, but I think I am going to retrofit the 97 cone and pusher for good measure.

I will report back after a water test this weekend. It's supposed to be 80F here in MI. Who hoo!!
 
mmmmm....think you may need those shims, considering, it came from the factory with them installed, and that was on a brand new set-up. Did you change the motor mounts, and use "aftermarket" ones, for you NOT to use the shims.
I'd keep them in ur toolbox/boat compartment, along with the wrench to loosen the mount bolts, just in case..shouldnt be difficult to loosen them up, and throw a shim or 2 in, if needed.:cheers:
 
Actually, there is more of a story with the shims.

When I bought the boat, the previous owner had the engine rebuilt by the Seadoo Clinic.

When I took it out for a test run, the hole shot was really bad. Which in turn led to my pump rebuild.

When I took apart my pump, I discovered that the top studs were shimmed with washers. I later discovered the engine had a lot of shims also in the forward mount (10+mm).

When I realigned, I did it without the washer shims on the pump because I did not like the angular seal the pump was making on the ride shoe neoprene seal. I believe this is one of the areas that was causing cavitation on the pump because the old seal was not pressed evenly. Since the pump was not tilted up anymore, there was no need for shims to get a perfect alignment. Believe me, I tried many different combinations because I questioned it myself. In the end, no shims was the best.

My theory as to why the pump was shimmed is because the shaft coming through the through-hull fitting is slightly biased towards the bottom of the boat. It by no means is rubbing though. Whether or not BRP or The Seadoo Clinic set it up this way, I cannot say. I want the best pump performance so I chose to align with no shims as to create the best seal between the hull and pump.

Just want to let you know that it wasn't a decision made without good engineering consideration.
 
I have had my pump off a few times and the engiine out twice. Each time I use the allignment tool and each time I use the same shims for the motor mounts and the two shims/washers on the top two pump studs in the transom. It lines up pefect. I never have vibration or grinding. With always using new rubber bumbers and the addition of the anti rattle cone, i have zero knock also.
 
The reason I removed the pump shims was to get a better seal between the pump and the ride shoe. Not because of the vibration/grinding.

The vibration (I believe) was a result of the engine not being aligned correctly the first time I did it.

Just want to point out that the two are not directly related.
 
think the "pump" wedging, is for better takeoff/excelleration. Been read'n, how people "wedge" the pump, when mod'n their ski's. So, think the previous owner, decided to experiment.
I'm talk'n about the "engine" mount shims, but sounds like, you got a handle on it..:cheers:
 
Got a chance to do another water test yesterday after the "new" alignment. Although it seems quieter, at idle I am still getting some rattle noise. I took the boat up to my dealer and the mechanic thought it sounded normal. He thought the noise was probably spline chatter.

Still not convinced, I took the cone off to retrofit the 97 cone with the spring and pusher. I started it briefly to circulate the oil and verify the level with the nozzle assembly off. Of course, even with the pusher it still rattles.

It does seem to me like it is the impeller vibrating in the wear ring. Going back to my first question, is this a possibility (ie normal) given the new Solas impeller and wear ring?

Thanks again for the help.
 
vibration and spline chatter

When you had the pump off did you check the tolerances? The shop manual gives you the amount of play up/down allowed as well as amount front/back. If it is very much though the impeller would get into the ring I would think. Mine gives me some vibration rattling noise out of the water with the reverse gate making a little noise at 3,000 rpm. This is not the drive shaft knock though. Have no idea what the spline chatter is.:conehead:
 
Honestly, I did not check the tolerances as I replaced all 3 bearings in the pump with new. There doesn't seem to be any gouging/scrapng on the wear ring though.

Spline chatter= the impeller vibrating on the shaft splines at idle.
 
spline chatter

My SkatTrak and Nujet impellers both fit very well on the drive shaft with very little play. I have never experienced the chatter. The rubber collar that plugs in those impellers and holds around the drive shaft helps also with this I would think.
 
I got around to installing the 97 pump cone with the pusher and spring and honestly it didn't help.

I've listened a little closer to the noise and I would say it definitely sounds like the impeller is hitting the wear ring. It's intermittant and evident from idle up to approximate 2500-3K on the tach. I can hear it in the water and feel it in the floorboard while seated in the boat. There is no vibration otherwise.

I'm beginning to think maybe it's just the way the boat is. I'm running out of things to try. I do wonder, however, if it has anything to do with the solas impeller. Maybe I will try to swap it out this week.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

poetbruce
Pump install
Replies
2
Views
328
poetbruce
poetbruce
Im610frank
1996 seadoo sportster 717 cavitation
Replies
12
Views
325
wrench2ride
wrench2ride
J
2018 seadoo 130 GTI needs impeller, wear ring, impeller seal and tool
Replies
2
Views
364
jhanratt
J
D
Need help with impeller rubbing ahead of pump
Replies
1
Views
425
Spider4real
S
P
Sportster Le Di RPM loss with ANY left steering.
Replies
0
Views
324
PSBeachBum
P
Back
Top