starting issues

[Khan 74]

Hi all, I have 2 seadoos with hopefully the same problem. Both have been sitting and not used for about 9 years. first is an '03 GTX 4-tec supercharged, and the second is an '04 RXP 4-tec supercharged. On both, engines will not turn over. Here is what I have done so far.

Batteries are good on both, and grounds to the engine are good on both.
DESS post reacts normal on both. 2 beeps, then 4 short beeps every few seconds after.
start/stop switches test good on both, with good continuity when pressed.
I have 12V getting to the Starter solenoids. (When I complete ground to the solenoid with the DESS key on the post they both turn over.)
Good continuity in all wires going from start/stop switches and DESS posts to the ECU and MPEM.

Something is not finishing off the ground side, not really sure where to look next. Hopefully someone can help here. I am thinking that it is not coincidence that both skiis have this same issue after sitting so long.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

I'm not clear on what the problem is? They crank fine but won't start? If yes, I'd test the fuel pressure.

If they've been sitting that long, the electric fuel pumps are likely corroded inside. The fuel if any, would be incredibly stale as well and should be disposed of.

There's really not a good way to pickle an electric fuel pump for long-term storage that I know of but filling the tank with fuel+stabilizer then disposing of the stale fuel while bringing it out of mothball might work. I just don't like storing a full tank of fuel, it's a lot of waste to dispose of, for one thing.

 

[Khan 74]

Thanks for the reply, I should have been a little more clear. The problem I am trying to figure out right now is why the engines won't turn over by pressing the start/stop button.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Got it. There's 12V on one side of the starter solenoid coil and the MPEM/ECU normally sinks the other side of the solenoid coil to ground when the start button is pressed. In this case it's not happening and there's no indication of a problem reported by the buzzer.

FWIW, my older seadoo will do exactly this if the shifter isn't in neutral, with no buzzer beeps.

Maybe this diagnostic procedure can help?
http://files.brptuning.ru/Bombardier/Manuals/PWC/4-TEC-DIAGNOSTIC-PROCEDURES.pdf

 

[Khan 74]

Thank you, I will try this out.

 

[PabloCruz]

Hey if you figure this out I have the same issue with my 2003 GTX 4-Tec supercharged as well, exactly same issue. The only thing mine is doing is making the solenoid click click click as though the ground being controlled by the ECU is turning on and off quickly, to quick to allow solenoid to actually pull in and supply power to starter. Could there be a relay around the ECU that is faulty.

 

[Khan 74]

I will, thanks. Have you tried jumping a ground wire straight to the solenoid bypassing the ECU? Let me know if you figure out your problem as well.

 

[PabloCruz]

I will, thanks. Have you tried jumping a ground wire straight to the solenoid bypassing the ECU? Let me know if you figure out your problem as well.

No that’s my next trial. I do know if I take battery and charge with positive disconnected and hook back up it will start but not for long thinking the battery is either bad or is taking a very hard draw. Maybe the ECU is sensing low volts and takes starting circuit off line. The unit is at my cottage so won’t get to it for another week or so. Good luck with yours and I will keep you filled in

 

[Khan 74]

Still having this issue guys. 1 more question, is there another safety feature I am not checking that would cause the seadoos not to turn over? Besides the lanyard? As both Start/stop switch, and lanyard check out good, and continuity in all wiring to the ECM / MPEM all good.

Thanks,

 

[nateccnn]

No that’s my next trial. I do know if I take battery and charge with positive disconnected and hook back up it will start but not for long thinking the battery is either bad or is taking a very hard draw. Maybe the ECU is sensing low volts and takes starting circuit off line. The unit is at my cottage so won’t get to it for another week or so. Good luck with yours and I will keep you filled in

Your battery is shot. Replace it and report back for duty?

 

[nateccnn]

Hi all, I have 2 seadoos with hopefully the same problem. Both have been sitting and not used for about 9 years. first is an '03 GTX 4-tec supercharged, and the second is an '04 RXP 4-tec supercharged. On both, engines will not turn over. Here is what I have done so far.

Batteries are good on both, and grounds to the engine are good on both.
DESS post reacts normal on both. 2 beeps, then 4 short beeps every few seconds after.
start/stop switches test good on both, with good continuity when pressed.
I have 12V getting to the Starter solenoids. (When I complete ground to the solenoid with the DESS key on the post they both turn over.)
Good continuity in all wires going from start/stop switches and DESS posts to the ECU and MPEM.

Something is not finishing off the ground side, not really sure where to look next. Hopefully someone can help here. I am thinking that it is not coincidence that both skiis have this same issue after sitting so long.

Thanks in advance.

So...if you jump across the solenoid, the engine turns over. But if you just press the start button it does not turn over? If you jump the solenoid and it turns over, does it run?

If this is the case, replace the solenoid.

If it does not run then you have other issues. Not sure if replacing the solenoid is the best step to take in that case.

 

[Khan 74]

Batteries and solenoids are good. If I short the ground side of the solenoid directly to ground, they both turn over, but do not start. There is power getting to the solenoids on the power side of things, something just not making the ground connection when the start button is pressed.

 

[nateccnn]

Well...the selonoid is what makes the ground connection for the starter. But if the ground strap on the engine is not making contact that could explain the No-Start even when it does crank. What ground are you shorting the solenoid to? Engine block? Have you checked continuity from engine block to the main common ground? Or any wired grounded cricuit?

 

[Khan 74]

Yes, I am grounding the solenoid directly to the Engine block. The grounds I have found are the 3 bolts at the front / bottom of the engine, cleaned all them up and tightened, they all have continuity to the main common ground, also, I cleaned up the 2 other connectors that go directly to the battery ground. Are there any other grounds I am missing here? I also checked continuity on all ground wires going to the ECM harness according to the wiring diagram, all check out good.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Here's a stretch, but just maybe though... TOPS thinks the boat is upside down? I'm not sure about this, seems like you'd get a fault, warning and nastygrams from the display if there is one.

 

[nateccnn]

Basic engine diag first. Engine needs three things to run. Fuel. Air. Spark.

Pull the plugs and turn the engine over to see if each plug is generating spark. Do this by grounding the base of the plug to the engine block while the tip is plugged in...crank the engine. Don't hold the plug with your hand or you'll get a nice jolt of energy through your body.

If you have spark, put the plugs back in.

Check to see if fuel is getting to the system. You can pull the fuel line and check for fuel pressure by putting the end of the fuel line in a clean bottle and see if it flows. If so, it's getting to the fuel rail...that's a good sign. Put the fuel line back on and pull injector. Crank engine to see if injector has fuel spray. If so...good to go on fuel...put injectors back in.

That leaves air flow. Clean your air filter. Check for mouse nest in the ducts and clean as necessary.

Once we narrow it down to one of the three needs, then we can troubleshoot that more in-depth.

 

[PabloCruz]

Ok guys, this is old thread but I have had this issue on and off and have what I believe might be a solution for some, my battery was definitely good, I changed solenoid, but the problem of it going click click click sometimes came back, but always could start with jump across high current side of solenoid. That got me to thinking that the starter may be bad drawing big amps and driving voltage down, Seadoo apparently protects itself from low voltage and cuts power, then thinking it would immediately come back on, thus cycling the solenoid on and off, but it always started with jump across solenoid. I then bought the solenoid retrofit kit, this comes with the plug as well, thinking bad plug, well when I pulled the plug off the solenoid I found one of the receivers had pushed back into the plug, I figure what might have been happening is it might have just been barely making contact, so if you get the dreaded click click click, check the plug on the solenoid you can spot it as when you look into the plug one receiver is back further than the other, they should be the same.