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SBN Carbs

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needforspeed

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What size carb for a 587? I have 89 & 90 SP's and they had th sbn on them. I finally got the engines back in and I had rebuilt the carbs over the winter but I couldn't get the screws out to change the needle and seats and it is flooding the engine so I am thinking of just buying two new carbs and be done with it. but I need to be sure I get the right size. I think it is either a 38 or a 40. Both engines are pretty much stock. If the 40 would give it a little more speed then I will just get that but I am so close to riding that I just want get on the water and stop messing with the carbs. Where can I get the best price on two new carbs?
 
You had Super BN carbs on them???

The stock carbs are a round body Mikuni BN38 with an external fuel pump.

(I've got one I'll sell cheap)

It's clean, and should be ready to run.



 
To answer the second question....

Putting on a 40, may give you better top speed, but you will have a hard time with a quick transition from idle, to full throttle, and you will be on your own with jetting. We can help... but I've never tried to put that large of a carb on a yellow engine.

Oh... and since you have a revlimiter set to 6500 RPM's... I don't know if the bigger carb will give you anything extra anyway.
 
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To answer the second question....

Putting on a 40, may give you better top speed, but you will have a had time with a quick transition from idle, to full throttle, and you will be on your own with jetting. We can help... but I've never tried to put that large of a carb on a yellow engine.

Oh... and since you have a revlimiter set to 6500 RPM's... I don't know if the bigger carb will give you anything extra anyway.

yes there were SBN carbs on them they have their own fuel pump. So someone over the life of these thing had upgraded to the SBN. I rebuilt them over the winter with a rebuild kit from SBT (before I read one of your post about only using genuine Mikuni rebuild kits) But the screws that hold the N/S assembly were so stripped out and corroded That I was hoping that they would be ok. Since now it is flooding so bad I can't even get it to fire up I believe I have a needle and seat ? aftermarket diaphram issue. If I am taking the carb off again I am either replacing them or getting them right from the get go. Would like to replace with new but I need two of them. And I need to get them apart to see te jetting and the N/S size
 
sbn

Dr. Honda,
Since my carbs are all rebuilt except for the N/S. What do you think of instead of paying 30-40 $ (again) for a whole new rebuild kit + the N/S, I just get the Mikuni diaphram and the new N/S? I should be good to go then right? Didn't you post about the after market diaphram being a problem on those other rebuild kits? I am just bummed about having to take that carb off again.....what a PITA to get that on and off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
To answer the second question....

Putting on a 40, may give you better top speed, but you will have a hard time with a quick transition from idle, to full throttle, and you will be on your own with jetting. We can help... but I've never tried to put that large of a carb on a yellow engine.

Oh... and since you have a revlimiter set to 6500 RPM's... I don't know if the bigger carb will give you anything extra anyway.

probably wouldn't even fit now that I think about it. Isn't the 38mm or the 40 mm the size of the bore? and The bolt holes probably wouldn't line up. I just want to get the thing running.
 
Yes, You can just replace the diaphragms with Mikuni units. The rest of the parts in the aftermarket kits are fine.

Right now, my SBN conversion is using:

130 main
67.5 pilot
0 high needle
1-1/2 low needle
2.0 needle/seat
23~24 psi pop-off


It's not perfectly smooth at an idle, but that can be because it's a 20 year old engine. I bumped the idle up to around 1800 rpm to smooth it out. BUT... the plugs look clean, and there are no transition issues, or loading up issues.
 
One more thing. You may find the the needle and seat are OK. The aftermarket diaphragms hold the needle open.

Once you get the carb apart... check the pop-off pressure. If you get a good clean pop... you should be fine with just a diaphragm replacement.
 
One more thing. You may find the the needle and seat are OK. The aftermarket diaphragms hold the needle open.

Once you get the carb apart... check the pop-off pressure. If you get a good clean pop... you should be fine with just a diaphragm replacement.

yeah well if that carb is coming off....and it is coming apart.... it is getting a new N/S.......I am done messing around. By the way how did you come to find out about the after market diaphrams being no good? just wondering
 
By the way how did you come to find out about the after market diaphrams being no good? just wondering

Last year, there seemed to be a bunch of threads saying that people were having hard starting issues after a rebuild, but the engine would run fine after it got re-started.

Several of the big boys suggested that the needle and seat were leaking, and after a while, the consensus was that the pin on the aftermarket diaphragms was a little too long. (discovery one)

So... I was doing a restoration on my Sportster, and the guy I bought it from put a brand new engine in it, but couldn't get it to run. So... I went right out and bought 2 "Windrosea" rebuild kits. Once I got the carbs off... they were rusty and nasty, so I work my regular magic on them using these kits. The diaphragms in them were OEM Mikuni. (red nipple) I measured them, and I measured the Windrosa kit, and the nipples were within an acceptable tolerance to each other. (Seeing that we just bend the spring arm to make adjustments)

After putting them back together... the boat ran fine, but guess what... I had to crank it for 10 seconds with the throttle half way up to get it to fire. And when it did fire... it would cough, and chug on one cycl for a couple seconds, and then finally clear out, and run spot-on. (idle, transition, WOT were all good) So... it was clear that the carbs were leaking while sitting... but the flow wasn't so bad that it wouldn't idle smooth.


Later that week, I pulled the carbs and went though them again, taking the "Pin is too long" info with me. Once again, I measured the OEM pin and the Windrosa pin, and I filed it to the exact same length. I put the carbs back on the boat, and went for a ride.

While at the lake... I still had the same problem, but since the boat ran... I just didnt' kill it until I was ready to be on the shore for a while, and knowing about the issue, it was easy enough to get it to re fire. (half throttle and crank)



SO... one more time... the carbs come off. This time, I double checked the pop-off pressure, and I did a leak test on the needle. It passed just fine, but as I was putting the diaphragms back in... I hear a "PHSSSssss" when I tightend down the screws. Sure engouh... the needle wouldn't hold pressure at all. (FYI, my pop-off in that carb was 44 psi, and now it wouldn't hold 3 psi) But... as soon as I loosened that screw again, all was OK.

Knowing that the pin was exactly the same as the OEM pin, I checked for other problems.

My conclusion was that the bellows of the aftermarket diaphragm was too thick, and I think the bellows was contacting the back cover, and it was putting pressure on the pin.

I even tried to bend the spring arm down a little, but it would still lift my needle and seat once the cover screws were torqued down.

The easy solution.... I put in new mikuni diaphragms, and the carbs could then hold pressure with the diaphragm and cover in place.


I'm sorry that got long... but I figure I would put that story out there so people would know that I had first hand issues with this problem.

The kits may have gotten better because this summer, I've only seen one or two people reporting hard starting, and it being a rebuild issue.
 
Last year, there seemed to be a bunch of threads saying that people were having hard starting issues after a rebuild, but the engine would run fine after it got re-started.

Several of the big boys suggested that the needle and seat were leaking, and after a while, the consensus was that the pin on the aftermarket diaphragms was a little too long. (discovery one)

So... I was doing a restoration on my Sportster, and the guy I bought it from put a brand new engine in it, but couldn't get it to run. So... I went right out and bought 2 "Windrosea" rebuild kits. Once I got the carbs off... they were rusty and nasty, so I work my regular magic on them using these kits. The diaphragms in them were OEM Mikuni. (red nipple) I measured them, and I measured the Windrosa kit, and the nipples were within an acceptable tolerance to each other. (Seeing that we just bend the spring arm to make adjustments)

After putting them back together... the boat ran fine, but guess what... I had to crank it for 10 seconds with the throttle half way up to get it to fire. And when it did fire... it would cough, and chug on one cycl for a couple seconds, and then finally clear out, and run spot-on. (idle, transition, WOT were all good) So... it was clear that the carbs were leaking while sitting... but the flow wasn't so bad that it wouldn't idle smooth.


Later that week, I pulled the carbs and went though them again, taking the "Pin is too long" info with me. Once again, I measured the OEM pin and the Windrosa pin, and I filed it to the exact same length. I put the carbs back on the boat, and went for a ride.

While at the lake... I still had the same problem, but since the boat ran... I just didnt' kill it until I was ready to be on the shore for a while, and knowing about the issue, it was easy enough to get it to re fire. (half throttle and crank)



SO... one more time... the carbs come off. This time, I double checked the pop-off pressure, and I did a leak test on the needle. It passed just fine, but as I was putting the diaphragms back in... I hear a "PHSSSssss" when I tightend down the screws. Sure engouh... the needle wouldn't hold pressure at all. (FYI, my pop-off in that carb was 44 psi, and now it wouldn't hold 3 psi) But... as soon as I loosened that screw again, all was OK.

Knowing that the pin was exactly the same as the OEM pin, I checked for other problems.

My conclusion was that the bellows of the aftermarket diaphragm was too thick, and I think the bellows was contacting the back cover, and it was putting pressure on the pin.

I even tried to bend the spring arm down a little, but it would still lift my needle and seat once the cover screws were torqued down.

The easy solution.... I put in new mikuni diaphragms, and the carbs could then hold pressure with the diaphragm and cover in place.


I'm sorry that got long... but I figure I would put that story out there so people would know that I had first hand issues with this problem.

The kits may have gotten better because this summer, I've only seen one or two people reporting hard starting, and it being a rebuild issue.

Not too long at all. I asked becase I wanted to know. Thanks for taking the time and explaining it. I still have the old diaghrams. With the red tit. They didn't have holes or anything I just thought I would change it because it was in the kit and I was trying to be proactive so the carbs would be ready to bolt on. So do you think my crankcase is filled with fuel right now? Is there an off position on the fuel selector? I am pretty sure on the sp if the selector is pointing to the port side it is RES and to the starboard side is on. But it clicks in the middle so that should be off correct?
 
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I have a new style knob on mine... so it's pointing to the right. (that's backward to the original)

But to remove any ambiguity....

The center position is "Off", if you rotate the valve counterclockwise, that is "Reserve", and if you rotate it "Clockwise" it's "Run."
 
ok I got the run and res because when I put the new fuel line on I saw which tube went where and the longer fuel pick up was reserve. I just didn't know if there was an "off" There was a click spot so I had a pretty good idea but, I wasn't sure. I don't have the stock sticker so I am putting lettering decals on, res, off around the knob. I also needed to know about the off so I could keep it in the off position since my needle and seat are leaking and I don't want to let my engine fill with fuel.
 
built my pop off tester last night. I don't have a bicycle pump so I am using a sports bal pump if I take the needle off it screws right onto the shrader valve.
 
pop off

When I pump it up I get a pop and a hiss. Then I have to relieve the rest of the pressure before my next test. Three times in a row correct? I also tested the fuel pump which I allready know works because it was pumping fuel. But it held 4 psi for about 11 seconds and the instruction said at least 10 seconds so I guess it is close enough but it is real close. So is all this normal? Oh the check valve is working as it is supposed to as well.
 
got the new N7S yesterday

So Yesterday I got the new N & S and new diaghrams. Pop Off pressure is a consistant 26 psi. three times in a row. I also tested them after the diaghrams went back on and all is good. So I am good to go as long as I can get spark for my 89 SP. The 90 SP is running and ready for a test ride.
 
Sorry I missed the last post.

I'm a little confused... are you running a separate fuel pump? The Super BN has a fuel pump built into it, and when you test the pop-off, you will actually put pressure though the pump. Regardless... if you get a clean pop at 26 psi... you should be good to go.
 
Sorry I missed the last post.

I'm a little confused... are you running a separate fuel pump? The Super BN has a fuel pump built into it, and when you test the pop-off, you will actually put pressure though the pump. Regardless... if you get a clean pop at 26 psi... you should be good to go.

I had a procedure that said to pump 4 psi into the pulse fitting on the fuel pump and it should hold it for 10 seconds. Yes the fuel pump is on the carb.
 
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