Random engine death

[suprajake]

Well, here's the thing. This has happened twice now, so it's either huge coincidence, or a problem.

For reference, this is a 95 Sportster.

I'm cruising full bore across the lake. Calm lake, very little chop. I hear the RPM's lower a little bit, probably about a few hundred RPM's, and then sudden death. Hit the starter button, and CLICK. No starter, just the click from the brain box area. Now I know the starter broke the first time, one of the brushes came un-soldered. However, after having it re-soldered, I took the boat out today, and same exact thing. Now, I'm replacing the starter because I'm pissed at it, but I somehow doubt that's why the boat dies. What could cause the boat to just pretty much die instantly? (Keeping in mind it drops a few hundred RPM's or so over like 2 seconds then it dies)

Both times this has happened, I've been on the absolute far side of the lake, and have luckily been towed back both times by random nice fishermen. What can be done to NOT make me look like a fool the next time I hit the water?

 

[pl_dwsn]

Could be loose wiring in the MPEM, check fuel supply. Make sure you don't have blockage from the filter to the carbs, it could be sucking the fuel out of the lines and not getting any more. Did it run for about the same time on both trips?

 

[suprajake]

First time it ran about 30 minutes before it did it, a lot of that was WOT. Second time it ran about 2 minutes. I might end up just replacing the fuel lines, I read somewhere it makes a difference. Does it?

 

[pl_dwsn]

If you have the grey ones it will, since they will break down and flake off on the inside. I've been chasing demons in my boat since day 1. Hopefully yours is an easy fix.

 

[pl_dwsn]

Since the run times were different, I would check for loose electrical connections as well. If a ground is loose it can cause problems.

 

[suprajake]

Where would the best place be to check for a short? Is it possible that abuse could shorten the life of a computer, or ignition module, or whatever these boats have? This boat has been abused by its last owner, who used to jump waves in Lake Michigan.

 

[pl_dwsn]

Water and time is about the normal destroyer of the MPEM. Jumping and jarring the boat can cause loose connections. Do you have a service manual? If you do, look at your electrical schematics and that should tell you where the connections are. If you do not have a service manual, you can click on the parts link up top/right and just look at the electrical parts layout to get some ideas. If you remove the cover off of the MPEM in your engine compartment, you will see many smaller wires that have splices, and two larger red wires that are connected via a solenoid. I would check the solenoid wiring, and the initiating voltage that closes the solenoid to start the boat. The next step would be to find your ground on your motor. I am not sure where it is located on your boat, mine is by the starter. This is a good start to your problems. Also check your battery voltage, see if it is charging, etc. I may be able to send you my service manual as it covers the challenger, speedster, and sportster. (1996 models)

 

[Dennis]

Engine dies

Don't over look the possibility that maybe your engine or jet pump are seizing. That would explain the starter problems and "just clicks".
DAWG

 

[suprajake]

Thanks for the replies! I do not have a service manual yet, one thing I have to get still. As far as the ground, I'll have to look for it, there's 2 larger negative cables to the battery, one of them goes from the starter and the other I have to find yet. I know the solonoid works, and I know for a fact the starter is bad. In short, when me and my electrician friend pulled the starter apart, the hot lead to the brush was severed, and the starter had noticibly been pulled apart before, and GREASED when re-assembled. The entire inside of the starter was charcoal black. After cleaning we re-attached the brush lead, and it worked for a few starts and now nothing again. So, I'll replace the starter. I'll get into the main box (the whole thing is the MPEM?) and check wiring there. I shall let you know what I find, if anything. Thanks again!

Oh, and the charging system does work, I tied to dock and started the boat and let it run, and the battery voltage dropped to 12.3 during starting, and over the course of about a minute was back up to 12.7 and climbing when I pulled the voltmeter off the battery.

 

[suprajake]

Just got back inside from working on the boat. Pulled the cover off the MPEM and no loose wires in there, I tugged on each one. Even the ones that are plugged to other wires I pulled apart and put back together, just in case. I am really beginning to wonder where this ghost is I'm chasing. The engine will die, and the starter will turn the engine over again but I have to be at about half throttle. Then it'll die again, and then the starter doesn't work. There's not that much to the boat, just a few expensive looking panels and wiring and hoses. I gotta be missing something.

 

[pl_dwsn]

On my boat, if I try to start it a couple of times with no success, I have to pull my lanyard off of the post and re-plug it. Have you cleaned your post? That may explain the starting issues, dying issues. PM KustomKarl as I have read a post where he has explained how to clean and test the lanyard post. Hopefully that will help since those can be tempermental when full contact is not made.

 

[Chester]

Check the compression. It sounds like your engine has been seizing.

Chester

 

[suprajake]

What's this lanyard and post you're talking about? I'm willing to check all that. As far as the engine seizing, I've never had a boat I've always worked on cars, and if an engine seizes in a car, it's done for. How can you tell if it's seizing, and how can you fix that?

 

[Chester]

Did you check the compression?

Chester

 

[suprajake]

Compression check is going to have to wait, I need to open the starter and find out why it died. I'm still debating buying a new one versus buying a brush set for my current one. Only hangup is the commutator on the current one is pitted, and that makes me nervous.

 

[despower]

The lanyard is your DESS key that you insert before starting your seadoo and the post is where you insert your key.

 

[jlr40]

i have the same prob

I have been chasing the same problem you are having. I know that I am not seising, compression is at 157 on both cylinders. I then pulled spark plugs and found i was running on pure gas (lean). After pulling carbs and cleaning them i found that the oil-injector pump lines were disconnected and the prev owner had the pumps disabled and premixed. I had also noticed that this motor (compared to the other) was running hotter. I figured it was overheating and shutting itself off. This explains (for my problem) why I could run WOT for 20 mins, and then the motor would shut off. Minuets later I could start it agian but only run it for a minute or two before it shut off again. It's been a wk/end and no more symtoms since i began premixing. I know it a long shot but i would look at your plugs and see if your running hot. BTW, this link http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-S...ssoriesQ5fGear, will get you a starter shipped to your door for <$75 bucks. I bought it, and works perfectly. You need to keep the old bracket on the back and place it on the new one. I am learning as I go, I am noob, but everyone here has something to add, I apreciate this forum. I hope this helps.

 

[suprajake]

Oh, so the lanyard is the thing that was zip-tied down to disable the safety bit. Got that fixed, and now I hook it up to myself when I hit the water. As for where the key goes, haven't looked into that, I should probably tear that apart this winter and clean it out.

How do I tell if the engine is running hot? I don't have a temp gauge or anything, so I'd have to look at the plugs, what would I be looking for? It's just weird that before it ran fine, and only the last 2 times I had it out it started doing this. With a sportster, I have the large oil tank, but don't know that it's going down at all. I am beginning to have the feeling it's going to be a long, long winter. Now it's sounding like I'm facing a teardown of the oil injection. I don't mind premixing, but all things considered, I'd rather have it do it automatically. If that's the collective advice for right now though, I'll premix what's in the tank (about half tank) and try that once the starter is back in.

 

[jlr40]

Sorry for the scare, that wasn't my intention. I am also a newbie in the seadoo world. That was just my first adventure into diagnosing my first big problem. Below are some pics of spark plug conditions: the first is normal wear, the second is wet/dry fouled, and third is excessive heat.(left to right). Without another motor sitting next to the one that is problematic, I wouldn't know how to tell if your overheating. I do remember that when I placed my hand on the "good" motor I could handle the heat for a min, but the other one hurt seconds after touching.

I am sure that tomorrow the actual mechanics (supreman)will comment on your probs and offer better help then others' problems.

 

[suprajake]

Being that the plugs are pretty new I'll pull them out when I get a chance and take pics of them. I should goober them up with anti-sieze anyways, as the previous owner didn't do that. Maybe I'll just buy another new set, I like having clean new plugs in my engines. I almost wonder if that could be the problem. If this were a car, I'd be looking at the control module, but being a boat I don't even know if it HAS one of those.

 

[jlr40]

yeah, pics would help. I bought my boat 2 months ago, put new plugs in it first day out. When the premixed gas leaned out, I was burning spark plugs in one days worth of running it to troubleshoot. But like I said, I am sure that pro help is on the way.

 

[pl_dwsn]

How did you come out with the starter? Did you change it out or are you trying something else? Keep posting info as someone will come across it and have had the same experience and will give some valuable information.

 

[suprajake]

Waiting on the starter a bit, I'll probably end up getting new brushes and hoping for the best, as that's the cheaper option. I found a close set of brushes at Auto Zone and am waiting for my electrician friend to get better (chemotherapy) so he can tell me if they'll work or not. I'd say they should, but he knows better. If they don't work I'm out $3 so I'm not too concerned there. It'll be a bit before I can run a compression test, I will try and get the plugs out tomorrow and get pics of them posted. I'm kind of hoping to find this problem quickly, but hope is dwindling. Eh, maybe a rebuild wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, I'd get more acquainted with my boat.

 

[suprajake]

Here's a pic I took of the spark plugs. The one on the left is from the front, the one on the right is from the rear. At least if there's a problem I'll know which area to look at, hopefully. This is after being out a few times on the water, maybe 2 hours run time total.

Once again mods, sorry, but I'm forum-stupid, can you resize please?

 

[Chester]

Pull the head off and have a look. That one plug has specks of aluminum on it.

Chester