No Spark...

[BigMike]

I did a search for this issue and came across a few things but still haven't a problem... was hoping someone can help....

I have a 1996 Seadoo GSX with the 787... Ran it all last year thing ran MINT... stored and covered it for the winter and went to start it and no spark... I did the advanced diag with the lanyard and said no communication with the lanyard so i brought it to the dealer and he hooked up his programmer and said that the lanyard is working and communicating... He did notice that my 12V Low Warning was on and since i had no spark he said hes 80% sure its in my Stator/MAG assembly... First i checked the easiest thing which was the Coil and seen there was a Crack right down the middle...

Bought a new coil ($100) i installed it... Still no spark... So i took the MAG cover off and im not really sure what the stators are suppose to look like but they said any kind of corrosion/green/ stuff would be bad... mine was clean... but i found a used stator for $145 and took a chance and installed it... Still no spark...

I do have the shop manual for this jet ski and i noticed i have Power going into the MPEM... but no power coming out of it to the Buzzer/Beeper... There is power going into the DC - CDI but i checked the wire that says its from the Trigger Impulse with the test light and no power... so i tried my Multimeter... and i got a reading of 3.453A/C Volt give or take when cranking... I have heard the DC_CDI go bad and cause no spark so i found one for $100 still waiting for it to get here... but i have a funny feeling i got problems with my MPEM....

I am at a total lost if anyone can help me i would appreciate it...

 

[Dr Honda]

Hi,

I don't think that your MPEM is bad. On the 800, the MPEM has a digital "Handshake" with the CDI. If that handshake doesn't happen, you will get an error, and it won't crank. The logic side of the CDI can work... but it may not fire the coil. The problem with the 800's CDI is that since it's DC, it has to ramp 12v up to 150 to 300 volts to fire the coil. The cascade circuit that makes that happen, can burn out.

When you got your new coil... did it come with new wires?

 

[BigMike]

Yes i bought the coil brand new and it came with the wires... the engine cranks strongly... just no spark...

 

[Dr Honda]

Well... if the pick-up coil checks out... then all that's left is the DCI.

 

[BigMike]

well i guess i will find out if that does it on Wednesday... found one on ebay for $100 ... guy says it works 100% and he takes returns with full refund soo hopefully ill get lucky

 

[BigMike]

got the CDI in today plugged it in and still no spark.... im seriously like losing my mind on this Jet Ski... i just want to sell it because im buying a home and need some extra cash... and id like to have it running but quite frankly this thing is turning into a money pit... $100 on the Coil, $160 on the Stator, $100 on the DC-CDI.... i mean i guess i could of gotten bad parts but perhaps you can give me a detailed step for testing to eliminate parts so i know 100% what is wrong with it...

 

[BigMike]

Well... if the pick-up coil checks out... then all that's left is the DCI.

i have made an interesting discovery... I hooked a test light up (grounded first) and got nothing on both wires (one white one black) on the coil... the white wire you can see is a ground... and the white wire according to the manual is the wire from the CDI... on the back of the coil it has the - and + when i replaced the coil i am 100% sure that the wire i can see that is ground was hooked to the + terminal and the white wire from the CDI was hooked to the - ... i have swapped parts left and right and switching these wires and still no spark...

I hooked my test light to a power source then tested the terminals on the coil and found that when i hit both it lit up meaning it was grounded? is this correct? i thought one wire (white) was suppose to have power but for some reason it has ground?

 

[Dr Honda]

Hi,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.....


OK... so, everything has been replaced. Unfortunately, with out the dealers equipment, it's hard to troubleshoot. (since the 800 has digital parts)

On the pulse coil, I'm a little confused. If you have it "Open"... then there shouldn't be a ground on it. The coil supplies a pulse tot he CDI to fire it. If there is a ground... then that coil is shorted out. When you had the cover off... was it tight on it's mount?

As far as the "Money pit" thing... it's not a big deal. When you find the bad part... the other parts can be sold, so you will just be out the shipping.

 

[BigMike]

Hi,

Sorry it took so long to get back to you.....


OK... so, everything has been replaced. Unfortunately, with out the dealers equipment, it's hard to troubleshoot. (since the 800 has digital parts)

On the pulse coil, I'm a little confused. If you have it "Open"... then there shouldn't be a ground on it. The coil supplies a pulse tot he CDI to fire it. If there is a ground... then that coil is shorted out. When you had the cover off... was it tight on it's mount?

As far as the "Money pit" thing... it's not a big deal. When you find the bad part... the other parts can be sold, so you will just be out the shipping.

Well not everything has been replaced... just waiting on the MPEM... and i have a pretty big gut feeling its the culprit... it doesn't even send power out to my buzzer/beeper. And when i installed my lanyard my gauges flicker and sometimes don't even stay on.

The thing that thru me off was the Ignition coil... the two wire pig tails... i hooked my end of the test light to a power source and when i touched them my light lit up... so that tells me its acting as a ground... i even disconnected the wire from the coil and tested it and still got a ground.. The white wire that comes from the CDI box... i did noticed when i disconnect my plug from the MAG cover it does go off... Also when i disconnect the smalll white 3 wire plug connector from the CDI box it goes off as well... So either my problem is still behind the MAG or that MPEM is doing some funky stuff causing me to loss my mind... but i did order the MPEM hopefully have it by tomorrow and can try it out...

I took apart the front to access the MAG and stator and everything looked intact... as a matter of fact the one i took out of my jet ski was clean no green stuff or nothing... i ordered one on eBay from a seadoo part out guy and he claims 100% it works that he was willing to take the part back with full refund... so when i do get the MPEM and if i stilll have no spark then im back to the MAG... but what are the chances id have two bad stator/pick up coils? i hooked up my test leds from my multimeter to them and when cranking i do get some voltage out of it...

 

[Dr Honda]

If you are using a simple pick light... then you may have caused problems. Feeding 12v into a part that shouldn't have power on it, can destroy it. You should be using an Multy meter. A pick light should only be looking for power. So... you hook the wire to a ground... never to power.

As far as the ground on the white wire... yes, that should be right since that wire will go "Logic Low" to stop the CDI from producing a spark. (engine not running) If you have a logic probe, then when you hook up the lanyard... you should see a data stream. (on the 800 it's not a simple "Open/closed" control system)


OK... now that I have re-read things... and you are telling me that your MPEM is doing strange things... I would double check all of it's wiring, and fuses. If nothing is found... then you will need to replace it. But... MPEM's don't normally go crazy. They either work, or they don't.

One thing.. If your MPEM has the little square, plastic plugs on the face of it... then open them up. The pins are known to corrode.

 

[jhjesse]

Just thinking about something simple.

You stated that it ran fine last season and now it wont spark.
Did you clip the plug wires back first? Just a thought!

 

[ski-d00]

did you check/test/replace the pick up? this is notorious for failing on the 787, especially the 96, they all pretty much fail sooner or later.

 

[BigMike]

Well glad to see im getting a little bit more feed back but i will re explain everything all over again to hopefully make better sense...

Ski ran MINT! no issues... one day just didn't wanna start i checked she had no spark.... on my info gauge i would sometimes get a 12V low message but never ever had a problem with it dieing on me or not starting due to lack of power...

At first i thought i was having issues with my lanyard so i brought it to a Seadoo dealer and he hooked up his key programmer and said that the key was not the problem and he was nice enough to say... that since the 12V low message was up and i had no spark he pointed to the MAG told me to take it apart.... so when i looked at it a said ohhh boyy looks like a pain to do...

First step i did before taking the cover off was i checked the Ignition coil in the rear box and it had a crack right down the middle of it... so i replaced it and it came with all new wires already into the coil and on the other end i installed the rubber L boots to the plugs and i did not cut the wires back but i did see the wire conductor so i know its making contact... but still had no spark....

Then i took apart my MAG cover and ordered one from eBay from a seadoo part out guy who claims his stator and pick up work 100% and even offered my money back.. i installed it still no spark...

At this point i was confused and asked for help from another mechanic who got into it with a simple test light and multimeter... i have the service manual with all the wiring diagrams and tests and that is when i got all that info with the ground and wiring...

soo next step i got a DC-CDI box and hooked it up and still no spark... also a used part but person says its 100% in working order or money back... when i got no spark here its when we tried the test light on the coil and found that it was acting both wires where acting as a ground...

soo im really hoping the MPEM will fix my problem... but as far as me causing it to go bad i don't believe so because we only used the test light after we put in the other stator and pick up...


i will upload some pictures for you guys in a lil

 

[BigMike]

also just wanted to state i did check all fuses.. and wires for corrosion and nothing....

Maybe im over analyzing a bit here... but when i went to take my pictures i noticed my coil cracked right next to one of the pig tails... what are the chances or it jumping spark to the pigtail frying my MPEM and DC-CDI... heres the pics....

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/img0590sp.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/img0591qi.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/535/img0592ba.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/838/img0593d.jpg/

 

[jhjesse]

If you check the pick up and it checks good, then I would check the 7.5 and the 15 amp fuses in the rear electrical box under/beside the coil, if you have not already. Because of their obscure location, they some times get overlooked.

 

[BigMike]

If you check the pick up and it checks good, then I would check the 7.5 and the 15 amp fuses in the rear electrical box under/beside the coil, if you have not already. Because of their obscure location, they some times get overlooked.

fuses are good... really hoping that my problem is the MPEM because its like the last part i haven't changed... either way i will have quite a bit of parts for sale after this if anyone is interested... trying to sell the whole jet ski actually... buying a house and need some extra cash for furniture and appliances

 

[Bills86e]

The Electricals will not work if your battery is not 100%. That said, could be the problem, IMO. It would explain the low-voltage signal.

 

[BigMike]

The Electricals will not work if your battery is not 100%. That said, could be the problem, IMO. It would explain the low-voltage signal.

i only got the low-voltage signal when i was riding it.. but i rode it for hours sometimes a full day had it off and it started back up no problem and the battery i had was brand new and i kept it on a maintainer thru the winter... i threw a jump pack on the battery just so it wouldn't kill the battery

 

[Bills86e]

Take the battery to an auto part store, they "load Test" them for free!
Make sure you hooked up the small black wire coming out of the coil box to the negative side of the battery, and the magneto plug is plugged in. The battery is a key player to get spark.
The stator has nothing to do with the ignition on a 787 engine. The cdi gets the power from the mpem and the mpem gets power from the battery. The ignition is only triggered by the rotor on the flywheel passing the ignition pick up on the backside of the mag cover. To make it all work that little black wire needs to be hooked up to the battery, the mag connector plugged into the mag cover.

 

[BigMike]

:banghead::banghead::banghead: Just got my MPEM in and same issue No Spark... This leaves me to believe im back at step one.... because i must have two defective parts and got scammed on eBay... someone must of sold me a defective part... soo looks like im gunna have just bring it to the Seadoo Dealer and hopefully they don't rape me on the price :banghead::banghead:

Before i do if someone can just answer this quick question... since i took the oil pump off all the oil leaked out and i have the low oil message... by any chance would this cause the the jet ski not to spark??

 

[ski-d00]

no, oil sensor has nothing to do with the spark. I wish it did so I didn't have to hear... " the low oil came on about an hour or so ago, then it just stopped, what do think is the problem?"

You don't need to take it to the dealer, you can check everything, start at the mag to make sure you are getting a signal from the pickup coil when the flywheel rotates and go from there, it is not that complicated.

My guess is the pick up since they have such a high failure rate, but go from there.

 

[BigMike]

no, oil sensor has nothing to do with the spark. I wish it did so I didn't have to hear... " the low oil came on about an hour or so ago, then it just stopped, what do think is the problem?"

You don't need to take it to the dealer, you can check everything, start at the mag to make sure you are getting a signal from the pickup coil when the flywheel rotates and go from there, it is not that complicated.

My guess is the pick up since they have such a high failure rate, but go from there.

Alrite well ill hold off from going to the dealer but if someone would be so kind to give me a some what detailed test sequence i would greatly appreciate it... like where am i suppose to hook my multimeter leads to and what kind of voltage should i be seeing.. AC?? or DC??

i mean i have replaced the ignition coil (Brand New) from Seadoo Dealer... it came with the spark plug wires... i have new spark plugs...

I can start with the basics...

- I have New Battery getting good voltage at the battery... When i crank and monitor the volts at the battery im at 12.80+or- So battery is out of the equation....
- Fuses are all good in the rear eletric box and in the front box where the MPEM is...
- Black Wire coming from rear electric box is grounded


i mean i don't think the fact i have the exhaust pipe off is not causing it to spark... or the fact i only installed two screws on the MAG cover...

 

[BigMike]

Well June 10th the ski goes in for service at the Dealer... its the next available day they have an opening so if anyone before that day can help me out id greatly appreciate it

 

[krowbar73]

how's the unit? did the dealer find the problem?

 

[BigMike]

how's the unit? did the dealer find the problem?

they just started working on it... they called me yesterday and i got a little worried... i mean i know they are the dealer but i told them i have no spark... and they call me back like well your engine mount is broke, the ground is in the wrong place... the engine doesn't turn over... and im like it turned over freely and strongly before no problem... and the reason it's there is for no spark... i didn't ask for a complete diag of whats not 100%... So i dunno still waiting to hear from them... but i seriously hope they don't call me and tell me the work they did is over $140 cuz i will be pissed...