No Pee stream on the hose? Also cutting off while running like the key was pulled

[THill]

I just bought my first PWC ever, and it's a 2002 SeaDoo GTX DI. I bought it cheap. Has two issues that I know of:

1. Per seller, it runs well for a few minutes, but then shuts down like the key was pulled. After awhile, you can start it back up, but it will only idle after that. Next day, it runs fine, but does the same thing. Runs great on the hose. (I have not verified this yet)

2. When on the hose, I notice is that it doesn't "pee". Strong water source, screwed in tight.

Because of these two things, I suspect something is getting hot, and making it go into limp mode. Any thoughts or suggestions? It does not seem to be getting even warm when I touch the engine while running on the hose, but I've only run it for 5 minutes at a time, out of fear of the no tell-tale stream.


Also, I made a big mistake... The battery was low, so I hooked up a charger to it last night. This morning, I saw a sticker that says NOT to charge the battery when hooked up to the ski. OOPS! I'm guessing this could fry the computer or voltage regulator? A real dummy move, to be sure.

I know outboard motors, but I know NOTHING about PWC's. Have only been on one once.

Thanks in advance for any comments, good or bad.

 

[THill]

Having read other similar posts here, I'm going to go out and press a garden hose up against the tell tale hole, to see if I can back flush any debris. Will report back once I'm done.

 

[THill]

Update:
When I pressed a water hose to the tell-tale hole, water came out of the short hose I had on the flush port. So at least the little tell-tale hose isn't clogged.

Does this machine need to be in the water to make a tell-tale stream? Weak water pump? Does this machine even HAVE a water pump, or does it use pressurized water from the impeller to cool the engine?

So many questions. I'm starting to read the owner's manual to learn some basics.

Thanks.

 

[mikidymac]

No, you should get water out the pee hole.

Second a poorly running DI had better had been cheap.

Check compression first then fuel pressure.

130 psi on compression is what you want and fuel pressure has to be exactly 107 psi.

 

[THill]

Yes, it was cheap.

I checked battery voltage, and before starting, the battery was at 13.07 volts. Dropped to 12.97v when I started, and then crept up to 13.5v after running for maybe 20 seconds or so. Voltage and charging system seems good.

Then, after reading your reply, I went out and checked compression and it's bad news. Back cylinder was 140 PSI, the front was only 60 PSI.

I'm disgusted with myself, because I ALWAYS check compression when buying something. Not knowing anything about these machines, and because it started up so easily, I took the seller's word for it.

Now, the question is, what causes low compression, and how much does it cost to fix? What should I check first? Do they have head gaskets that can leak, or is it usually something worse?

Thanks.

 

[THill]

Went out and sprayed a little fogging oil in the cylinder, and rotated the engine for a few seconds.
Compression jumped to 120. That might explain why he says it will run up to speed. Of course, he's not offering to buy it back. I'm a big boy. I bought it without doing the basic tests, so it's on me.

How difficult is pulling one of these engines? I'm not scared of the work, just don't have a lot of time for it.

Is there a simple way to figure out WHY the engine damage happened so it doesn't happen again?
That engine only lasted 98 hours. UGH.

 

[POPPS]

Going to be a "labour of love!!!"!!!

 

[THill]

YUP. Very true.

The thing is- what a nice looking machine. Really clean and all-original. I like it.
So my question is, do I try to fix it, or sell it for what I paid and call it a day?
A rebuilt engine looks like it's about $950. I wonder how hard doing a swap would be? I'm concerned about not knowing what caused this problem, and having the new motor blow up, too. Throwing good money after bad.

Thoughts???

 

[THill]

Purchased a 2002 SeaDoo GLX DI with the symptom that "It runs great up to speed, then shuts off like you hit the key."

I hoped it was a key fob issue. The guy offered to deliver to my local boat ramp. In the water, it started up instantly and sounded pretty good, but the guy refused to take it for a quick spin, stating that he didn't have time to row it back if it died. I didn't do a compression check because after he drove it 2 hours to get to me, for the price it was worth the gamble.

Well, I lost the gamble. The front cylinder only has 60 psi compression. The back one has 140.

I know nothing about Rotax engines. Could this be as simple as a bad head gasket? Or, is this likely the engine is toast?

I called the seller, and he sent me a link to SES, and their engines run about $950 plus the core, plus a 1-year warranty.

So what is the best way to go? Find a mechanic to try and figure it out, or just swap engines?
And what caused this? I don't want to swap engines, only to blow up the 2nd one.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[mikidymac]

No, the engine tis toast. Needs full rebuild including crank and balance shaft and fuel/air injector service.

Stay away from SES and FullBore if you want an engine back in less than 1 year, they suck.

 

[nibroc]

damn------that answer is not what he or she wanted Miki

 

[mikidymac]

damn------that answer is not what he or she wanted Miki

I agree and feel for them but buying a DI that doesn't run always ends up the same, $$$$.

 

[mikidymac]

You will spend at least $1,000 and probably closer to $1,500 when all is said and done.

Engine is toast if your compression tester is accurate. Adding oil will just give you a false high reading and really meaningless.

Also keep in mind that the hull you have was really designed for the larger more powerful 4-strokes so that 130 HP 2-stroke is barely adequate for that big and heavy hull.

 

[THill]

Thanks for that info. Once the engine gets pulled, is it possible to upgrade to a larger 4-stroke, or is it better to just buy one already set up? I'm happy with the 50 mph or so that this one runs, so maybe not an issue.

My compression comment earlier referred to outboards that I've seen, where they would show low compression when "dry", but when fuel/oil mix is added while running, it gets high enough to actually run decently. I ran a motor like this for a number of years, waiting for it to blow up, sold it with full disclosure, and as far as I know, it's still running fine, crazy as that is.

Of course, this may not apply to a Rotax engine. An outboard runs for thousands of hours in normal use, whereas these engines seem to need to be rebuilt every couple hundred hours.

This is a different world than what I'm used to!

 

[WaarrEagle]

Be careful what you take on here. I am 2+ years into my DI rehab project and my engine is back with SES for warranty work. I am not convinced SES does bad work, but they are definitely slow and unable to meet their time commitments.

It is very doubtful that you will find anyone local that can handle a DI. They are rare and extremely complicated for a 2 stroke. But you can read up here and do a lot of it yourself. Fuel pressure issues often lead to engine problems when they run lean. Full service manuals are available on google if you search and are extremely helpful.

 

[THill]

I agree and feel for them but buying a DI that doesn't run always ends up the same, $$$$.

Yup, that's true. PWC's are boats, which stands for Bust Out Another Thousand. I know the score in that regard. You gotta pay to play.

Be careful what you take on here. I am 2+ years into my DI rehab project and my engine is back with SES for warranty work. I am not convinced SES does bad work, but they are definitely slow and unable to meet their time commitments.

It is very doubtful that you will find anyone local that can handle a DI. They are rare and extremely complicated for a 2 stroke. But you can read up here and do a lot of it yourself. Fuel pressure issues often lead to engine problems when they run lean. Full service manuals are available on google if you search and are extremely helpful.

Thanks for the experience. I've seen a lot of mixed reviews about SBC and SES. Mostly negative about Full Bore, so not on my radar. Any other players in this area of expertice?

So far, I'm leaning toward SES or finding a local tech, but I might just sell it on Craigslist and move on.

If I can get this thing running reliably for $1k or so, I'll be pretty happy, even if it's not until spring.

 

[mikidymac]

Consider yourself warned, SES will probably not have an engine for you this summer or even next fall.

 

[mikidymac]

No, can't swap in a 4-stroke.
Well, with enough time and money anything is possible but still No.

 

[THill]

Strong words of warning. But it might not matter. A fellow boat mechanic just hooked me up with "Alan", a SeaDoo-only mechanic in Southern Maryland, a couple of hours away. Spoke with him on the phone, and he seems competent. He wouldn't tell me is how much the total bill will be to rebuild, until he takes a look at it, but that actually increases my confidence in him.

Decisions, decisions... I might just list the machine on Craigslist, and see what kind of bites I get, and see what I can buy another one for.

Thanks for the words of warning. I appreciate it.

 

[mikidymac]

Another option is SBT which is an exchange service with a warranty. They are nothing special but do honor their warranty and will actually ship you an engine.

The biggest thing is finding out why your engine quit or it will just ruin a new engine. Typically on these it is the fuel system.

 

[THill]

Well here is an interesting update...

Yesterday, I checked compression, and one was 140 and the other was 60. I put some oil in the cylinder, and it went to 120 and 140. Artificially boosted, of course, but that tells me any scoring may not be too deep.

Today, I wanted to see how it ran on the water. I dropped her in, and she started instantly, as usual, idled smoothly, and when I hit the throttle, she leaped up on plane and ran out beautifully. HUH? I was not expecting that.

Back home, I put the compression tester on it, and that front cylinder is running at 110 and the back at 135.

This makes me wonder what is really going on. With an outboard, a slightly scuffed cylinder will very rarely wear back in and rebuild compression. But that is very rare.

Could this be something besides a damaged cylinder or rings? She sure did run well on the water.

Thanks.

 

[THill]

I'm posting this on both threads, but this is a pretty interesting update...

Yesterday, I checked compression, and one was 140 and the other was 90. I put some oil in the cylinder, and it went to 120 and 140. Artificially boosted, of course, but that tells me any scoring may not be too deep.

Today, I wanted to see how it ran on the water, and if she would pee after I back-flushed the tell-tale. So I dropped her in, and she started instantly as usual, idled smoothly, and when I hit the throttle, she leaped up on plane and ran out beautifully. HUH? I was not expecting that.

Back home, a little puzzled, I put the compression tester on it, and the front cylinder is now running at 110 and the back at 135 with the engine warm.

This makes me wonder what is really going on. With an outboard, a slightly scuffed cylinder can VERY rarely wear back into the rings and rebuild compression. But that is very rare. I guess it's possible with other engines, too, but I imagine it is almost unheard of.

Could this be something besides a damaged cylinder or rings? She sure did run well on the water.

Thanks.

 

[THill]

Oh, and the tell-tale started running almost instantly after I started her up, so all is good in that direction.

 

[mikidymac]

If the compression numbers are accurate then you have top end damage.

 

[THill]

I'm starting to wonder about this gauge. It's not Harbor freight, but it's probably 15 or 20 years old. I wonder if the Schrader valve needs to be replaced, or better yet, maybe it's time for a new one.

I was able to speak to a Seadoo tech locally, and he said damage is likely, but added that on occasion a leaking injector can wash the oil film off, and give a low comp reading. Then when you run it for a few minutes the gas burns off and the normal film is restored and compression goes back up. But he says that causes premature wear, so I should definitely get it checked out ASAP.

He is not thrilled with the popular rebuild shops, but says that their 2 year warranty is hard to beat. He can do the top end, or a full rebuild, but it might keep going for another 40 or 50 hours, depending on what he finds.

I'm at a crossroad of what to do. Run this one until it drops, then rebuild? Get the top end work done, and hope the bottom end holds on longer? Or just sell it, and look for a good-running sled?

What does a clean, good-looking machine sell for in running condition, but with top end damage? It's pretty perfect otherwise. It looks good, everything works, and it ran very well for me.