New to PWCs, Picked up 2 '95 XP's

[nate0031]

Hello all, first post here. I'm new to PWCs and high powered 2-strokes, but not new to turning wrenches. I've done several diesel conversions, various engine swaps, automatic transmission rebuilds, engine rebuilds, standard transmission swaps, even built a 450 size RC helicopter drone. So I'm hoping my learning curve isn't too steep, lol.

On to my first question. I picked up two matching 1995 XPs. One came with a Factory Pipe already installed. I don't have great detail, but I know the engine was redone after the factory pipe was installed. It had a new crank put in and was bored .040" over from what I was told. After doing some reading on the Factory Pipe, I'm suspicious that it locked the engine up prompting the rebuild. From what I read, running lean due to the stock carburetors seems to be a big cause of this. From what I can tell, this motor still has the stock carbs.

My thought is that, if the motor did lock up due to the factory pipe causing a lean condition, increasing motor displacement will not help the condition in the least, almost certainly making it worse. I took a brief look at the PTO plug and it is more of a coffee color, which is promising, but I want to be certain that the engine is running safe.

How can I verify it's running safe? A short run then check the plugs? If they check out, a bit longer run and repeat? I have a borescope to take a look at the pistons too if that helps.

Or would you recommend I revert to stock? The stock pipe was included. I read that the 720 is a good simple reliable engine stock and as much as I'd love the extra oomph, I'd much rather a reliable 85 HP ski than a 100 HP ski on the edge of destruction.

Is there a sure fire way to run a factory pipe reliably? 44mm carbs?

Thank you!

 

[racerxxx]

Welcome to the forum! And congrats on the new toys. You are going to have to open up the carbs and verify what jets are in there from the previous owner. NEVER assume they got it right. From there [MENTION=51824]Matt Braley[/MENTION] can chime in on where to start with the jetting to help avoid a meltdown, or at least try and avoid.

 

[Matt Braley]

The coffee color on the rear plug is promising. Even when you get the carb jetting right you will now need to pull the electric solenoid apart now and then to ensure it's not stuck with corrosion or sand. 44's will feed it well but then that ski will run out of fuel long before the stock one does. I would ride it and stop after wide open throttle runs and look at the plugs. You don't want to see any grey or white. You can buy a tach (like a TTO) and then watch the revs. If it falls off top WOT revs then it's likely going lean. The safest thing is to go back to stock of course but you might want to ride it first because the performance difference is quite noticeable.

 

[nate0031]

Thank you for the information guys. So is it possible the stock carbs will be adequate for the FPP? I took a closer look, having not looked at these engines before I didn't notice the aftermarket intake. Looks like they both have the R&D flame arrester, not sure how this changes things. The hose clamps on the FPP ski carbs are aftermarket screw types while the other ski has the stock clamp types, indicating the carbs have been off.

Is there a guide for dissembling the carbs and verifying what jets they have?

Thanks again.

 

[racerxxx]

The carbs are pretty straight forward once you open them up. Pop off pressure is key.

Here's a good read.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?40380-Carburetor-Adjustments

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Hi new to this. Just looking for an owners manual for a 96 gtx 787. Not a service manual. Found that

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Thanks for the quick response. But it keeps coming up access denied.

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Looking to get an extra safety key for my 96 gsx. Local dealer wants $49. Found them in ebay for $15. How do I know id mine has dss or not? New and confused

 

[Coastiejoe]

If your post has a electronic look to it and does NOT have a spring loaded center, then it is a DESS. I'll find a picture and post it shortly..

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Thar would be gr eat. Thanks. It sees 96 came both ways

 

[Mickirig1]

Where are you at in Ohio Nate0031 ?

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Actually near Pittsburgh. Pa

 

[Coastiejoe]

Here is a picture of a DESS post

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Thanks. Not near ski right now to check. But from what I hear the ski should beep twice when cap is put on post if its das. Mine doesn't beep but will start and run.

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Sent pic to wife. Says its dss. Says it actually says dss on lanyard ( faded). Thanks again for your help.

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

So any seadoo dess will fit?

 

[Coastiejoe]

Yes any DESS will snap on, but it will not start the ski as it MUST be programmed to the MPEM. There is an exception to this for the early skis where the DESS was added. I will ping [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION], he can answer this and provide a key to you as well..

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

I really appreciate this help. Nobody around me has any idea on this.

 

[Coastiejoe]

No issues,, that is why we are here..

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Yes...on a 96 GSX you would need to send me the MPEM out of the grey ebox to program new keys to them. If your dealer is selling you a OEM key and programming it free, do that...esp if its not a long drive. If they want to charge you $50+ on top of the key send it to me.

I charge $30 for SDF members, New aftermarket keys are $35.

 

[nobodyjeff5888]

Sounds good. I will get back to you on that

 

[nate0031]

Got busy and didn't check the thread for a bit, seems it kept on quite nicely! lol.

Where are you at in Ohio Nate0031 ?

I'm southeast, Belpre OH. If you're in Akron, I'm about 2 hours south, down I-77.

Been going through the ski's this last week trying to get them ready to get wet. Got new batteries, new fuel etc. The modded one starts and idles easy. The stock one starts fine with a pump of the primer, but won't maintain idle. If you give it light throttle it will stay running and it revs fine. If you hit the primer every 15 seconds or so, it'll stay idling ok but it won't continue on its own. I backed them into the water but still attached to the trailer so I could run them. Even though it won't maintain idle, it revs and pushes hard. So is the idling issue likely something that will work itself out once it's been run a bit? Or is it likely an adjustment issue? Or a clogged jet?

They're both pushing out a fair amount white smoke, but they're a little cleaner than they were at first. They've been run less than ten minutes each, and I assumed they have accumulated oil in the motor that needs to be burned out. Is that likely?

 

[AdamXP800]

I did not read back through the entire thread. With any new to you pwc you need to pull the carbs and go through them. If you don't you are basically playing Russian roulette with your engine.

Does it have the grey fuel lines?



96 XP800!
Keep the 2 strokes alive!

 

[Mickirig1]

Read up on fuel lines and the carb's. It is one of the main issues with the 2 strokes. There is days of reading on the subjects. Your internal filter may be clogged on the non-idle one. Do not use any JuryRig in a Jug in the gas to try to clear the carbs. The engines need the oil film from the oil injection for lube. The solvent in the stuff will strip the film off. Read the sticky note at top of the 2 stroke forum about carb adjustments. it explains a lot of issues with carb's and where to start. They are not real difficult to rebuild. Just have to be able to wrench. Also smart enough to ask questions when needed.

 

[nate0031]

Well a little update. I took them on the water briefly to see how they ran and check them out in general. They ran well, revved quickly and had plenty of power. The one still required a bit of throttle to idle, but ran well otherwise. Since I know they at least work now and to heed the valuable advice here, I kept that test short. I went ahead and rebuilt the carbs on both and changed all the gray fuel line.

The pilot jet for the stock ski is 75, the main is 137.5. The stock ski's low speed adjuster screw was .25 of a turn from bottom, the high speed was .75 from bottom.

The pilot jet for the factory pipe ski is 70, the main is 140. The factory pipe ski's low speed adjuster screw was 1 turn from bottom, the high speed was .4 from bottom.

Before I started the work I fired up both for a moment to see what the difference was before and after on the same day. I noticed they didn't want to fire up as easily and the primer almost seemed detrimental. It took a considerable amount of cranking to fire the stock one up this time, but only slightly longer for the FP ski. Once everything was replaced and with the carburetors still dry, they both fired right up without hesitation using 2 pumps of the primer knob.

The water test didn't go as well. The stock ski got even harder to start and took considerable cranking and about half throttle to start. Once started, it wouldn't just come straight to speed, it'd slowly speed up. It was obviously not right, so I didn't water test it further. For the FP ski, one pump of the primer and a quick tap of the button and it lit right off. I drove around easy to allow it to warm up for a bit, then went to ~3/4 throttle. It jumped up out of the water without hesitation and I was on my way. However, after a short burst of this throttle level, it fell on its face and RPM's fell to the 2k area. It still idled fine and seemed great at low throttle, 3k RPM or lower, but would just bog and not go above about 4k RPM's. If I would hold at a higher throttle level regardless, it would start to rev then bog and drop. It'd repeat that cycle as long as I held the throttle down.

After seeing that the FP ski wasn't happy either, I loaded them back up. When I went to start the engines for a second out of the water to clear water out, the FP ski also seemed hard to start without a bit of cranking and holding the throttle, although not nearly as bad as the stock one.

So where do I start? Checking pop-off pressure? Do the needle adjustments seem about right?