New problem this year

[JJinSC]

Well, Everything has been running fine this year. Just to review. I had whole engine rebuild last year. Carbs rebuilt with OEM kits. New oil pump and lines. I rebuilt the RAVES (Completely). New baffle. Fuel lines replaced 3 years ago. Had a flooding problem last year and replaced pressure relief valve on fuel vent. Flooding problem solved. Now the new problem this year is I can crank it up ride all day with no problem. Cut it off and let it cool down and crank it up and ride as long as I want again with not problems. However, If I take a ride and then cut it off for over five minutes, it does not want to crank well. It will fire each time and then cut right off. I have to choke and pump throttle to get it to clear out and it's not easy. Once clear out, it will run fine again. Twice today I had this problem and after I got it cleared out and pulled it back up on the dock and blipped the throttle to clear the water, I had a runaway (twice). Any ideas?

 

[Dr Honda]

Sounds like you have an air leak. Needing a choke on a hot start... and run-away is signs of being lean on the bottom.

 

[Dennis]

There are 2 fuel tank valves......one that relieves excessive tank pressure and one that relieves excessive tank vacuum. Sounds like the one that relieves vacuum might be giving you a problem. A fuel tank can come under vacuum while riding if this valve is faulty. The excessive vacuum in the tank will suck the fuel out of the fuel lines after you shut the ski off causing very hard starting. You might want to ride with the gas cap loose (dont get water in the tank) and see if the problem goes away. :cheers:

 

[JJinSC]

Sounds like you have an air leak. Needing a choke on a hot start... and run-away is signs of being lean on the bottom.

Hey Doc, How would I go about testing for this and finding this leak??

 

[JJinSC]

There are 2 fuel tank valves......one that relieves excessive tank pressure and one that relieves excessive tank vacuum. Sounds like the one that relieves vacuum might be giving you a problem. A fuel tank can come under vacuum while riding if this valve is faulty. The excessive vacuum in the tank will suck the fuel out of the fuel lines after you shut the ski off causing very hard starting. You might want to ride with the gas cap loose (dont get water in the tank) and see if the problem goes away. :cheers:

Yeah, This crossed, my mind today so I tried the gas cap trick. No resolve.

 

[JJinSC]

Sounds like you have an air leak. Needing a choke on a hot start... and run-away is signs of being lean on the bottom.

Hey Doc, How would I go about testing for this and finding this leak??

 

[470]

Just use a mityvac and test the check valve. As far as the air leak I use a propane bottle (not lit of course) just go around the base of the carbs,intake and crank while running. If the rpm's go up it has an air leak. WD40 works too but not as good.

 

[JJinSC]

So I got to use the XP some more today and payed a lot closer attention to what it was doing. So let me try and start fresh with the description of what it is doing. Before I did anything, I dumped and cleaned the water separator/filter. It was a little loose so I was hoping my problem was it was drawing air in the fuel line. Cranked up (cold) perfect as always. idled flawless for warm up. Road it for 20 minutes like a brand new ski. Came back to the dock and cut it off. Cranks back up fine and runs fine. Put it back on the dock and let it sit for 30 minutes. Cranked it up on the dock. It ran fine. Slide it off the dock and cranked it. It fires runs for about 1 second and cuts off. It does this for every crank. I have to work the throttle to get it to crank and go, but it takes a while as it keeps acting like it is running out of fuel. Finally get it going and cleared out and it runs perfect, idles perfect, everything perfect as long as I do not cut it off for more than a few minutes. I ride it for about 20 minutes and then put it back on the dock. Let it sit for a few minutes. Cranks perfect on the dock. Put it back in the water. Same thing. So next time I crank on the dock and leave it running while I slide it in. No problems. Let it sit until engine is cold. Everything is normal. No choke needed today and no runaways. I don't really think the choke was doing anything the other day any more than working the throttle. It seems like I have had this ski do this in the past and all it needed was new plugs. Does this sound like bad plugs or do I have other problems? The plug in now are not that old. ideas??

 

[Dr Honda]

First... sorry I let this one fall off my radar.

Second.... so... you don't need the choke on a hot start, but if it's in the water... you have to work the throttle a little to get it going, and clear it out. (right?) It will "Pop", then the starter disengages, and fails to continue to run. (right?) BUT.... on your dry dock... it will start.


OK... it's easy.... I have no clue. (LOL)


Someone else this year had a restart issue with a spring seat XP also.

I think the problem is 2 fold. Somehow... more water is getting into the water box than there should be. Effectively choking the engine. Second... the needle and seat are leaking slightly, and causing the engine to flood lightly.

NOW... a possible third part for you. If your starter is disengaging... that will make it harder to start. I would check your one-way clutch.

 

[JJinSC]

Thanks Doc! I think we can eliminate the starter problem as it is actually runs for a second or so before cutting off. It's actually doing a little more than a pop and then cutoff.

That leaves the other two. I do believe it is highly possible that the needle and seat is leaking as during the hotest part of the summer last year I had the flooding problem. I Thought I had cured that with a new pressure relief valve. The carbs were just rebuilt last year by the dealer with (according to the tech) OEM parts. Anyway to verify the leaking?

The issue of too much water in the box. It seams to me that I once mentioned the hesitation between idle and higher RPMS that I have always had to the dealer once way back when I first got it and he mentioned that this was a possible cause for that as well. How can I check to see if this is happening and if it is how would I address it?

Thanks again for all of your help.

 

[470]

OK... it's easy.... I have no clue. (LOL)

Now that comment made my day which was a rat race! lmao

 

[Dr Honda]

Thanks Doc! I think we can eliminate the starter problem as it is actually runs for a second or so before cutting off. It's actually doing a little more than a pop and then cutoff.

That leaves the other two. I do believe it is highly possible that the needle and seat is leaking as during the hotest part of the summer last year I had the flooding problem. I Thought I had cured that with a new pressure relief valve. The carbs were just rebuilt last year by the dealer with (according to the tech) OEM parts. Anyway to verify the leaking?

The issue of too much water in the box. It seams to me that I once mentioned the hesitation between idle and higher RPMS that I have always had to the dealer once way back when I first got it and he mentioned that this was a possible cause for that as well. How can I check to see if this is happening and if it is how would I address it?

Thanks again for all of your help.

I just rebuilt a set of carbs and the one needle was leaking... but it wasnt' the actual needle... it was the O-ring around the seat. All I did was pull it out, clean the housing, and replace the O-ring.

The way to check it is to put about 10 to 15 PSI on the carb... and listen. (you will hear it hiss) Unfortunately, you have to pull the carbs, and remove the regulator side. (like checking the pop-off)

As far as the waterbox... all you can do is pull it off, and look for internal corrosion, or missing parts.

One last thought... when you take the carbs off... make sure the rotary valve clearance is in spec. When that starts to open up... it will have a hard hot start issue.

Now that comment made my day which was a rat race! lmao

How about this one.... engine cooking class. (lol) I was installing a new sleeve in that center bore.

 

[470]

I know what you mean, My wife was not happy with the amount of time this motor spent in the oven. I had to pre heat it before I tig the two motors together. It took me like 8 times before I was happy with it.

 

[JJinSC]

Ok, at the end of this season I would really like to pull the carbs and send them to Doc. However, I want to make sure I do not have a lean issue going on. How can I check for this? WOT chop and read spark plugs?

 

[Dr Honda]

We've ruled out a lean issue, since you really didn't need the choke. (starts without a load)

Next time you have it out, and it's giving you problems... try holding the throttle open about 1/4 way... and then crank. (don't pump, just hold) I bet it will start... sputter... clear out, and run.

 

[Seadoobuddy]

How about this one.... engine cooking class. (lol) I was installing a new sleeve in that center bore.

Doc i see a couple of muffins are gone....did you snitch a couple while baking your motor?

the craziest thin I ever put into the oven were my bowling balls, (when I was really into the sport)...low heat and it sucks all the oil out of it so you can start fresh again. Did it when I was home alone....

 

[JJinSC]

We've ruled out a lean issue, since you really didn't need the choke. (starts without a load)

Next time you have it out, and it's giving you problems... try holding the throttle open about 1/4 way... and then crank. (don't pump, just hold) I bet it will start... sputter... clear out, and run.

Will do. Thanks!!!

 

[JJinSC]

How about this one.... engine cooking class. (lol) I was installing a new sleeve in that center bore.

Doc i see a couple of muffins are gone....did you snitch a couple while baking your motor?

the craziest thin I ever put into the oven were my bowling balls, (when I was really into the sport)...low heat and it sucks all the oil out of it so you can start fresh again. Did it when I was home alone....

You guys are making me hungry.