New here, supercharger failure...need input

[TDD11]

Hi all. I'm new here.. bought my first ski recently.. a 2013 Wake Pro 215.

I'm 2nd owner, and bought it with roughly 50 hours on it. Previous owner bought it new in 2014 and had dealer do all scheduled maintenance, has a extended warranty that was transferred to me, etc. They rode in 2014, and only rode one day in 2015.

Put less than 5 hours on the ski and the supercharger failed. It was running great, no lack of power or RPM's as seems to be typical of SC failure. As I idled back to the dock I noticed it have a slightly miss at idle. I shut it off immediately and haven't gotten it to restart since - it just cranks hard, maybe twice. After some of my own troubleshooting to verify it wasn't a battery issue, I took it to the dealer who said its the SC and that it needs a new engine as well due to ingesting aluminum. Extended warranty denied the warranty claim, saying the SC is not covered.

I'm looking for input from here. I'm a gearhead but unfamiliar with jet skis - at the moment.... The dealer did not pull the SC or inspect the engine for debris or damage - so I am contemplating doing that myself, to see if it can be cleaned and purchase a new SC - long shot I know. I understand there is likely collateral damage to the engine besides the aluminum debris.

What's everyone's thoughts? I'm getting a quote from the dealer to have them do it as well as what their warranty would be on the replacement - if any. At this point I'm expecting to have to buy an engine and SC. Any places to check for a low hours used engine before ordering a new/rebuilt one? Any places in Ohio with experienced mechanics besides dealers?

 

[TDD11]

Also... any upgrades (SC, etc) I should considering doing if I'm buying everything outright? Not opposed to buying upgraded parts instead of OEM..

 

[ski-d00]

It sounds like you need a new dealer. Pull the sc and take a look at it and let us know what you find. Not hard to do. Where in Ohio are you located?

 

[red2blue]

...The dealer did not pull the SC or inspect the engine for debris or damage -

Then how the fck do they know it and your motor is trashed?

 

[TDD11]

Mansfield area..

Valid point about the engine. I asked if they found engine damage and he stated that it ingests debris when a SC fails but they hadn't inspected for damage or debris. I just assumed they had another method to determine a failed SC. I'll plan on picking it up and pulling the SC.

 

[ski-d00]

You're about 2 hours from me, not too far. Very rarely do you have to rebuild the engine due to sc failure on the newer 4tecs. The older ones had ceramic washers that broke and did major engine damage. It sounds like you had a sc bearing failure to me. If so, you should be able to just rebuild it and it will be fine. However, I wouldn't trust anything that dealer said if they are looking to rebuild your motor already.

Did it throw any codes? I have BUDS and rebuild a lot of 4tecs if you need help, just pm me.

 

[TDD11]

You're my new best friend. Haha!

As far as codes, I never saw any sort of lights come on. I never tried to pull codes.

I will pick it up, pull it apart and get you guys some pictures. Maybe you guys can direct me from there.

 

[Hawk388]

If the dealer pulled the plugs and inspected in the cylinder bore, they may have found engine damage. Also, if they pulled oil out and found debris, that could explain it. However, I don't know too many dealers who're professional enough to do these very simple inspections. Find a new dealer or, use some here whose able to help out.

Will the engine turn over or is it seized?

 

[pvamax]

Sounds like more of a spark plug issue than sc...rough idle, hard starting...no peak rpm issue....yea that's not a sc problem. Blown sc will run fine but won't go above 6k rpm. Try replacing the plugs first...

 

[ski-d00]

If it were just plugs it would have restarted and not cranked hard. 4tecs run surprisingly well on 2 cyl but won't make good power. The cranking hard is a sign of something dragging, like a sc bearing that went out, but could be as serious as a crank bearing or as simple as something stuck in the pump. Too many possibilities to speculate really. I'm guessing sc bearing based only on what the dealer said by it having a sc failure(trying to give them some credit). I'm also guessing all they did is took the sc output hose off and found aluminum dust or pieces of the sc but who knows.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I am with the others on this one..

First, Get it back...

Pull the plugs and see how they look. You can pull the dipstick as you may see metal flakes.

Pull the SC, see if it spins smoothly or if it grinds and makes noise.

If the SC did fail, the engine will need to be pulled so that the SC debris can be cleaned out. I seriously doubt you have serious engine damage from a SC failure.

You will need to clean out the pan and both oil pumps well as that is where the metal parts go..

 

[JoeZ]

Sounds like a bearing failure inside the supercharger. Depends on which bearing it was as to the damage it'll cause internally. There is a possibility of parts dropping into the engine, but on newer skis (as mentioned) it doesn't typically result in much damage if caught early.

The impeller of the supercharger will rub on the housing, causing a fine aluminum dust. This dust is usually combined with oils to make a semi-sludge. This should be cleaned. Aluminum is a soft metal, so the dust usually isn't a culprit of a lot of damage to the combustion chamber.

For our rebuild service, it's currently as of 7/19/2016 (putting a date since people quote old prices on us) $435. We can help you with a replacement wheel, but that's still upping the price hundreds ($559 new OEM).

The thought of going to an xcharger is a good one. You already have 42lb injectors, so it is straight bolt in. http://www.pwcmuscle.com/sea-doo-x-model-supercharger.html
Rather than spending all the money to rebuild yours and replace the wheel, a brand new unit would be the way to go, and this upgrade gets you closer to what a 260 is. Add a Fizzle Intercooler and Tune and you'll be over 260.

I could write a dissertation on this...but if you need some advice or insight, feel free to give a call. 888-605-2335

 

[TDD11]

I'm all for giving the dealer credit on the SC diagnosis. When I questioned the engine replacement, asking if there was a hole or something like that in the case requiring the replacement, he just kept repeating his statement "the supercharger failed and the engine ingested it" - but didn't seem to have pulled the SC when I pressed for specifics. By no means am I saying that that isn't the case, just that he wouldn't elaborate whatsoever.

I checked the oil, oil fill was perfect and no metal in it.

Yeah I can the plugs bit I don't think it's ignition related. I think something is seized for sure.

Is the E6/E8 wrench still necessary for SC removal? I was looking for procedures and saw that mentioned but it was for an older model.

Oh and the x charger might be justifiable. Should know soon! Thanks everyone for the responses so far!!!

 

[TDD11]

I just want to confirm before ordering one.. I need a GearWrench 9220 E6 x E8 ratchet wrench, correct? I see they are suggested for the older 4tec SC removal, I wanted to verify thats what I need for my '13.

 

[ski-d00]

Yes, that's the correct wrench for the top bolt only. You'll have to grind the head down for clearance as seen in the pic above. For the other two, you'll need an E8 socket, 1/4" drive with a 3" extension works well.

 

[TDD11]

Thanks for the help! Yeah I saw your post with the wrench pic in other threads. Both the wrench and socket are now ordered. Thanks a ton! Probably won't receive that stuff until Friday, not sure I'll have an update before Sunday/Monday.

 

[grant747]

I'm new here and I want to thank everyone in advance for helping. After reading many posts it seems Y'all may be helpful to me as well.

I have a 2007 Sea Doo RXT 215. Bought it new in '08 and the SC has been rebuilt once under an extended warranty by Riva Motorsports in South Florida. I have about 150 hours on it since new (about 60 since SC rebuild) and last time I was out it started making a lot of noise. Sounded like marbles rattling around in the engine. I plan on removing the SC and sending to PWCMuscle for rebuild but I have some questions. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and believe I can complete the R & R of the SC without any problem. I have seen videos online about the removal and it seems pretty easy but I have some questions:
1. The SC inlet hose has standard hose clamps on it but the outlet has some sort or crimped band clamp. Can a regular hose clamp be used on the output?
2. I have looked at the oil and it looks pretty clean with no signs of metal flakes or sludge. Is there anything else I should do to the engine? does it have to be pulled for inspection?

I really don't have $$ to take it anywhere so if I don't do it myself, it just sits there ( an unnatural environment for a Sea Doo)

 

[JoeZ]

Hey Grant, in the supercharger removal video we mention the part about the hose clamps:
https://youtu.be/Wina2KSE-kE?t=119

Just use a regular hose clamp moving forward.

I always recommend an oil change at the time of a rebuild so you get the maintenance intervals in sync. However, wait until the supercharger is removed so you can tell if there are any parts that have fallen into the engine.

When you get it removed, you can take a pic of the gear area and post it online (but please start a new thread).

 

[grant747]

I looked at the video again and saw that now. Once I get it removed, I'll start a new thread with the pics and all the new questions I'm sure I'll have.
Thanks so much.

 

[rcookr1]

I'm new here and I want to thank everyone in advance for helping. After reading many posts it seems Y'all may be helpful to me as well.

I have a 2007 Sea Doo RXT 215. Bought it new in '08 and the SC has been rebuilt once under an extended warranty by Riva Motorsports in South Florida. I have about 150 hours on it since new (about 60 since SC rebuild) and last time I was out it started making a lot of noise. Sounded like marbles rattling around in the engine. I plan on removing the SC and sending to PWCMuscle for rebuild but I have some questions. I'm fairly mechanically inclined and believe I can complete the R & R of the SC without any problem. I have seen videos online about the removal and it seems pretty easy but I have some questions:
1. The SC inlet hose has standard hose clamps on it but the outlet has some sort or crimped band clamp. Can a regular hose clamp be used on the output?
2. I have looked at the oil and it looks pretty clean with no signs of metal flakes or sludge. Is there anything else I should do to the engine? does it have to be pulled for inspection?

I really don't have $$ to take it anywhere so if I don't do it myself, it just sits there ( an unnatural environment for a Sea Doo)

Replace them with stainless steel hose clamps!!!!!! get 2 3/8 to 3 inch got mine a lowes like 1.10 each

 

[TDD11]

Just to keep everyone updated:

The dealer inquired to Seadoo about some sort of help or coverage. Instead of immediately denying the request, Seadoo pressed the dealer for more information and documentation of the failure. The dealer of course did not have the partial engine or SC teardown documentation as requested.

So the ski is still at the dealer, waiting on some answers from Seadoo. Its a long shot but I left it there in case there is a chance that they would even offer a partial coverage.

Also, in going through service documentation, it appears there's a chance that a previous repair under warranty was not done correctly and that it could have impacted the SC. That was also submitted to Seadoo.

So for now, no first hand tear down by me. I will update when I have more direction.

 

[TDD11]

Well, I JUST picked up the ski last night. It was at the dealer for over 3 months. That part sucks....

I did not see the pictures or the damage myself, but BRP wanted the engine replaced after the dealer sent teardown photos. They replaced the engine, supercharger and who knows what else. Despite being out of the warranty period, they, meaning BRP or the dealer, stepped up and covered the majority of the bill. Instead of a $7000 bill, I had a $1300 bill. That part is incredible.

I can deal with missing the ski for half a year, in exchange for not having a dead jet ski requiring $7k worth of work, or at least $3-4k to fix myself.

 

[Hawk388]

Well, I JUST picked up the ski last night. It was at the dealer for over 3 months. That part sucks....

I did not see the pictures or the damage myself, but BRP wanted the engine replaced after the dealer sent teardown photos. They replaced the engine, supercharger and who knows what else. Despite being out of the warranty period, they, meaning BRP or the dealer, stepped up and covered the majority of the bill. Instead of a $7000 bill, I had a $1300 bill. That part is incredible.

I can deal with missing the ski for half a year, in exchange for not having a dead jet ski requiring $7k worth of work, or at least $3-4k to fix myself.

Sounds to me like a bad previous repair and all they charged you was shop materials and labor. Definitely worth the wait! Did they give you a warranty on the work performed?

 

[TDD11]

There is a warranty on the work but I can't recall off the top of my head. Unfortunately it is cold enough now that I don't know if it'll get a test-run. I was going to launch it tonight in order to swap it back onto my double trailer, but that lake does not permit PWC's so I can't go for a ride.

 

[Bren989]

I would try to find a nice day to go for a quick ride just to make sure everything is good again. You don't want to pull it out next spring and have to bring it back to the shop again because something is not right.