Just rebuilt carbs + other work to 95 HX, seems like it's overheating/bogging down

[cashel]

Alright so I picked up a 95 HX from a friend who had it sitting under a shed for a few years. He had said that he'd ride it, but it would bog down real bad. He said he took the carbs off, replaced fuel diaphragms but never got a chance to test it, just left it sitting.

When I picked it up, I put it in the water, it ran alright, but within 20-30 minutes, it started bogging to where you couldn't get past idle and it became hard to start.

I bought a carb rebuild kit and rebuilt the carbs using this guide:

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthrea...uild-your-Carb

This is the kit I purchased:

http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_p...68a127946dd086

I also did the following:

New battery
Added new injection oil
Replaced injection oil filter
Replaced fuel filter
Replaced ALL fuel lines
Checked fuel tank baffle
Replaced jet pump oil + orings
Cleaned fuel valve selector
New Plugs and I cut the wires back a 1/4"

I got it back in the water about an hour or two ago, and it ran absolutely great, like it was 1995 again. However after about 30 - 45 minutes I noticed it started bogging down again and now it won't start (will turn over, and it will start poorly every now and then). I notice some smoke (not a lot) in the engine compartment, and the water in there is a little oily (I see oil residue on parts). I get the feeling that if I get it back out of the water, drain it, and let it cool, that it will run fine again but that the problem will return. Thoughts on what's going on? Is it overheating, and if so, what can I do to fix this? It really ran absolutely perfectly earlier this afternoon before it started bogging down.

 

[manolocross]

Sound like you have engine exhaust in the engine compartment choking engine out... Look for the exhaust leak!

 

[black charger]

If the water in the hull is warm it's got to be an exhaust leak.

 

[cashel]

You guys were right on the money, I had a loose hose clamp. Thanks!

 

[manolocross]

Cool now go n ride it!!!

 

[cashel]

Cool now go n ride it!!!

I have been the last few days, and it's been great. More problems today however. I was thrown off earlier today and I still haven't mastered how to get on this thing in deep water - it's definitely not as easy as a newer jet ski. Anyway, I ended up flooding the hull from trying to get on the back and pretty much had to swim it back to shore.

I drained the water from the hull then took the plugs out and turn the motor over a few times to blow all of the water out. I wasn't able to get it started at first but was able to get it running eventually. The problem now is similar to the initial problem in the OP, but slightly different. With the issue in the OP, if you throttled it, you could tell it was bogging down. Now if you throttle it, it revs real high like it's not bogging, but it won't hardly go anywhere. The rear end sinks down real low and it goes a little faster than idle. I notice a little bit of smoke coming from the rear, not much though. I don't see any loose connections to any hoses or anything, and no smoke in the hull.

Basically before it would bog down when throttling, now it revs high and loud but won't go anywhere, if that makes any sense.

Thoughts? Also, anybody have any tips on how to get on this thing in deeper water?

 

[racerxxx]

Thoughts? Also, anybody have any tips on how to get on this thing in deeper water?

Yep, it relatively easy. I always did it the same when I was on an HX or X4. Reach up to the bars from the side while your in the water, grab the bars, give it gas and let it pull you up on to it, just let your legs flap and use a little upper body strength. Like standing next to a motorcycle and grabbing the bars--but in water. Easy as could be. The HX can be tricky to beginners as can an X4 hull. At 6'-2" and a very wide "wingspan" it is easy for me. Climbing on is a waste of energy, let the machine do it for you!

 

[manolocross]

Sound like you got cavitation.. You need to check the wearing and the drive shaft seal.

 

[cashel]

Yep, it relatively easy. I always did it the same when I was on an HX or X4. Reach up to the bars from the side while your in the water, grab the bars, give it gas and let it pull you up on to it, just let your legs flap and use a little upper body strength. Like standing next to a motorcycle and grabbing the bars--but in water. Easy as could be. The HX can be tricky to beginners as can an X4 hull. At 6'-2" and a very wide "wingspan" it is easy for me. Climbing on is a waste of energy, let the machine do it for you!

Thanks, I'll have to try this more. I'm 6'2" and tried it a few times but ended up getting dragged around beside the ski. I'll have to put a little more umph into it!

Sound like you got cavitation.. You need to check the wearing and the drive shaft seal.

Thanks, I'll start reading into this and how to fix it. Basically I have an air bubble in the pump/driveline, that was probably caused from flooding it when I was trying to get on it from the rear?

 

[cashel]

I haven't taken the HX out of the water just yet (took the homemade ramp I built out of the water to apply Liquid Rollers to hopefully make sliding the ski up the ramp a little easier), but I was considering going ahead and buying a new wear ring and drive shaft seal as these seem like wear items that eventually need to be replaced anyway. If I can get everything under $100 and just replace it now so I don't have to later, I have no problem with that.

http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=3359
http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_free_shipping_info&cPath=2&products_id=3

Do I also need the carbon ring (http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=231)?

Can somebody confirm these are the parts I'd need if I wanted to replace both the wear ring and drive shaft seal? Are there any tools I'd need (I think I've read I might need a tool to pull the drive shaft to get to the seal)? Any additional parts/seals/whatever I should pick up while ordering to save on shipping? On a similar note, anything else I should pick up and/or do as preventative maintenance while I'm doing all of this?

 

[Brucetafer]

hey cash sent you a PM, im in orlando let me know if i can help you out

 

[Strizzo]

more likely, the issue with the carbon seal caused the ski to fill up with water, which made it hard to reboard, and also causing your cavitation problem. put the ski in the water with the rear hatch cover off, and look at the driveshaft. there should be none or very little water leaking from the shaft seal. if there is a very small leak, you can try moving the rubber accordion boot towards the front of the ski and re-tightening the hose clamp to put more pressure on the carbon seal, if this fixes the leak you're going to need a new carbon seal sooner rather than later.

on the 97 xp, which has a similar rear driveshaft setup, seadoo used a rubber o-ring to retain the stainless ring against the carbon seal. over time, this would rot away and the stainless ring would no longer press against the carbon seal. this setup has since been replaced with a steel circlip that won't go bad. if you're already planning on pulling the pump to do a wear ring, it would be a good time to consider replacing the carbon seal and replacing the o-rings inside the stainless ring at the same time.

 

[cashel]

more likely, the issue with the carbon seal caused the ski to fill up with water, which made it hard to reboard, and also causing your cavitation problem. put the ski in the water with the rear hatch cover off, and look at the driveshaft. there should be none or very little water leaking from the shaft seal. if there is a very small leak, you can try moving the rubber accordion boot towards the front of the ski and re-tightening the hose clamp to put more pressure on the carbon seal, if this fixes the leak you're going to need a new carbon seal sooner rather than later.

on the 97 xp, which has a similar rear driveshaft setup, seadoo used a rubber o-ring to retain the stainless ring against the carbon seal. over time, this would rot away and the stainless ring would no longer press against the carbon seal. this setup has since been replaced with a steel circlip that won't go bad. if you're already planning on pulling the pump to do a wear ring, it would be a good time to consider replacing the carbon seal and replacing the o-rings inside the stainless ring at the same time.

I think your explanation of the 97 XP is what's going on with my 95 HX. It's in the garage now so I can't do the water test, but I know it wasn't leaking from the shaft area when untouched sitting in the water, but if you moved the boot it would suck in quite a bit of water into the hull. When I went to remove the o-ring/c-clip I couldn't actually find an o-ring or a c-clip, but there is a small gap where there'd be either one. I assume that with this gone/rotted away, I just need to pull the pump and the driveshaft should come right out correct? This leads me to my current issue:

One of the 4 13mm bolts holding what I believe is the venturi assembly (plastic housing in front of pump) is stuck. It spins freely but the threads at the very end must be rusted or messed up pretty good or something. Basically I cannot get this thing out with all the prying and pulling I've done, and I'm worried if I pry/pull any harder I'm going to mess up the assembly and possibly even the threads on the pump itself. Below is a picture of what I'm referring to:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121004_085954.jpg

What do you recommend for getting this out as cheaply/cleanly as possible? Cut the head off the bolt? I don't have an angle grinder, I can get one if I need to, but I'd like to avoid that if I can for now (though I could certainly use one in the garage). How likely are the threads of the sleeve on the pump destroyed, and what would you recommend if this is the case? Buy a bigger bolt and re-tap?

 

[racerxxx]

When I went to remove the o-ring/c-clip I couldn't actually find an o-ring or a c-clip, but there is a small gap where there'd be either one. I assume that with this gone/rotted away, I just need to pull the pump and the driveshaft should come right out correct? This leads me to my current issue:

Once you get the pump off you can slide the stainless part of the seal off the drive shaft, the O-rings will be in there more than likely

One of the 4 13mm bolts holding what I believe is the venturi assembly (plastic housing in front of pump) is stuck. It spins freely but the threads at the very end must be rusted or messed up pretty good or something. Basically I cannot get this thing out with all the prying and pulling I've done, and I'm worried if I pry/pull any harder I'm going to mess up the assembly and possibly even the threads on the pump itself. Below is a picture of what I'm referring to:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121004_085954.jpg

What do you recommend for getting this out as cheaply/cleanly as possible? Cut the head off the bolt? I don't have an angle grinder, I can get one if I need to, but I'd like to avoid that if I can for now (though I could certainly use one in the garage). How likely are the threads of the sleeve on the pump destroyed, and what would you recommend if this is the case? Buy a bigger bolt and re-tap?

Just take the whole pump off and work on removing the screw that is stuck later. At that point you'll be able to tell which part is messed up. Remove the 4 nuts that hold the pump to the hull, your drive shaft will come out too.

 

[cashel]

Once you get the pump off you can slide the stainless part of the seal off the drive shaft, the O-rings will be in there more than likely



Just take the whole pump off and work on removing the screw that is stuck later. At that point you'll be able to tell which part is messed up. Remove the 4 nuts that hold the pump to the hull, your drive shaft will come out too.

Ah so it is just the 4 nuts that hold the pump on? I thought that might be the case, but the few guides I had found had me pulling everything else off first, so I didn't want to jump ahead and get myself into trouble (sort of like the trouble I'm already in with that bolt ). Good to hear then, I'll do that later today.

 

[racerxxx]

Less is more, disconnect the steering cable, and the 4 nuts on the pump, I thnik the trim can stay connected. Why do more work than needed! Keeping it simple is what I like.

 

[cashel]

Keeping it simple is what I like.

I'm right there with you man. Thanks for the advice, I'll update later with some good news hopefully.

 

[cashel]

I was able to get both the pump and drive shaft off. Turns out the o-ring was still on there, but after spraying the steel collar with WD40, I was able to slide it back to pull the o-ring forward.

This is what I was greeted with after pulling the pump off (yikes):

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121005_173600.jpg

This is the state of the impeller:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121005_173746.jpg

Is that too much damage, or am I still OK to use it?

Installing the new carbon ring, steel collar, and c-clip should only take a few minutes from the look of it. Do I need to apply any grease, loc-tite, anything or can I slide these new pieces on the drive shaft as they are and slide the drive shaft back into the PTO? I also plan on replacing the wear ring, installing a new neoprene seal, and an anti-rattle kit on the pump while it's off.

Finally, I purchased a new bearing carrier assembly as I had heard that the one in my jet ski is prone to blowing out seals if over greased? This is what I purchased:

http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_free_shipping_info&cPath=2&products_id=3

Here's the old one still installed:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121005_225023.jpg

How do I remove the old one to install the new one? Also, I noticed/felt something behind the carrier assembly that feels like it has splines that has fallen/gotten out of alignment when I pulled the drive shaft out. I'm not quite sure how I'm going to get the drive shaft to line back up with it short of pulling the bearing carrier assembly to reattach/align it anyway. What is this part I'm feeling, what exactly has happened, and what do I need to do to get it back in place for drive shaft insertion?

 

[Strizzo]

The driveshaft goes through the rear support bearing and keys into the driveshaft coupler behind it. The seals on that bearing are double lip, so if you pump grease into it, Grease doesn't come out until you blow the inner seal. Be aware though that if you pull the bearing and carrier, you'll need an alignment tool to set it up correctly again.

 

[cashel]

The driveshaft goes through the rear support bearing and keys into the driveshaft coupler behind it. The seals on that bearing are double lip, so if you pump grease into it, Grease doesn't come out until you blow the inner seal. Be aware though that if you pull the bearing and carrier, you'll need an alignment tool to set it up correctly again.

Lol so basically I'm probably better off not replacing the bearing and carrier until I absolutely have to (I don't have an alignment tool, and they seem expensive/hard to come by). Any suggestions on what I need to do to get the driveshaft coupler back in alignment so the driveshaft keys into it?

 

[Strizzo]

on the xp theres enough room behind the bearing carrier/spring mount to get a hand back there to hold the coupler while you slide the shaft in. engine side of the driveshaft could have fallen off too, so make sure that end is attached before you put the driveshaft back into the coupler on the back end.

 

[cashel]

Just an update on everything -

Ended up getting the ski running and on the water yesterday. Ran great with no leaks. Thanks for the help everybody!

The engine side of the driveshaft got disconnected from the coupler which was disconnected from the carrier assembly. On the HX I suppose you could say there's room to get a hand back there, though it took a bit of greasing and squeezing to get my ham sized fists back there to blindly hook everything up.

Here's what I ended up replacing:

Wear Ring - tried the freezer trick which I'm pretty sure made everything worse by making the entire ring so brittle it kept snapping off in little pieces. Ended up cutting it by hand using a sawzaw blade

Neoprene seal
Carbon ring + new steel collar (the old one is still in the ski somewhere, I need to find it) + c-clip
Anti-rattle cone kit
Greased the splines to the driveshaft
I left the old carrier assembly in there and saved the new one for if/when it gives out.

Few questions -

How does the wear look on my impeller? Anything to worry over in the near future?

What is the greasing interval for the carrier assembly? I've read somewhere between 10 hours and 6/8 runs. How many pumps is enough? From what I could tell there wasn't much, if any, grease left on the splines when I pulled the driveshaft, but after 2.5 pumps of grease I could hear some air/grease escape (which I was worried might have blown the seal, but it never leaked any after getting it on the water). How many pumps each time, just one or two (I'm used to over-greasing fittings and not having to worry about seals)?

 

[Brucetafer]

no pics so we cant help there, but i grease mine after every ride, mostly 2-3 hour rides... its mostly a feel for the grease, dont pump enough till it comes out of the seal, but where the seal is hard (packed with grease) mine didnt even have seals on it or any grease when I bought mine, so I wasnt so lucky...

lets go for a ride!!

 

[cashel]

Sorry about that, here's the pic I posted a few posts up:

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj104/phicashel/IMG_20121005_173746.jpg

I'm down to ride man. The trailer + ski aren't quite road legal yet. The trailer needs a tag, and I need to transfer the title of the ski over to me + update the tag - you know roughly what all of that might cost? Until then, if we can get your ski on the lake I'm at, or if there's something REALLY close by I'm down. I'll shoot you a PM and we'll figure something out.

 

[Brucetafer]

the impeller from that angle is hard to tell if its good, you really have to check pitch angles etc.. but that looks pretty chewed up... whats the gap with the new wear ring??? its around 40-50 bucks if i remember to register the trailer (robbery) and like 100 for the ski... my lake is pretty shiiity at the moment with grass and weeds... so if your lake is good i can come to you...