Hope I did the right thing, Sea-Doo 2013 sunken

[benjilafouine]

At 8:00 PM tonight I noticed that the Sea-Doo next dock to mine was sunken (a rented cottage). It had water over the engine. I alerted the owner right away and him and his friend drained the engine bay with a bucket. Once it was afloat, they put the key and gave it one crank but the engine would not crank (three clocks). I told them to stop right away as I was sure the engine was hydro locked.

So, in the boondocks at 8:30 PM they were screwed. I told them that they could leave the machine as is and run to a dealer tomorrow morning. Unfortunately the Sea-Doo is 2 miles away to the public dock and one hour drive to the closest dealer (but I do have a place at my uncle's not far where I could pull it out of the water with my ATV).

Second option was to remove the plugs and try to empty the engine. I told them that I was taking no responsibility for that and that I was not a mechanics. The guys asked me if we wait 24 hours, what? I said engine gone.

So they decided to go with he spark plug removal way (especially that the Sea-Doo was borrowed...). I went to fetch my tools and removed the plugs. I also checked the oil for the presence of water and it seemed just fine (not grey at all). When they cranked it, it cranked just fine and it started throwing water 5 feet high from the three cylinders. They did that for a good five minutes but I felt the battery was going away. I put the plugs back in but it didn't start, the engine would not crank (but it had a much better sound).

So we removed the plugs again and cranked a little more. Only a bit more water came out. I was afraid that there was some water left at the bottom of the engine but with the oil OK, I think almost all of the water was out. It cranked just fine again without the plugs and after one minute it actually started smelling gasoline. I put back the plugs but as expected, it would not crank again. So I removed once more the plugs and sprayed fogging oil in the three cylinders (it is a 2013 model with a 1500 engine, no turbo charge, basic model). Then I put a cloth over the plug holes and they cranked a few seconds. Then I added more fogging oil and put the plugs loosely on the holes with the wires disconnected.

Then I removed the battery and brought it to my place and put it on the charger at 6 amps for the night. We also took the Sea-Doo out of the water as I strongly suspect that the carbon seal has a problem (I didn't check the hull).

Tomorrow morning we will try it again with the charged battery and I may pour a bit of starting fluid in the holes (fluid mixed with 2-stroke oil to be on the safe side of things). If it doesn't want to crank, the guys will have to rush to a garage which is not going to be an easy task in itself.

Also, they sucked rocks with the second Sea-Doo they had rented and the thing will not go more than just above throttle speed. I guess the wear ring is gone. They have to address this second problem as well tomorrow but the local guy should be able to do that for them.

Did I do the right thing with this hydro locked engine? I had that on a 2-stroke before but never on a four stroke. Good thing I am now maintaining my own 2018 model by myself...

To be continued tomorrow...

 

[skiasylum]

Your were right on taking no responsibility. Seadoo 4strokes definitely hydrolock and never crank a suspected water flooded engine. The next step after bailing the bilge of a water flooded 4 stroke is to drain the intake and exhaust systems of water. As soon as they they cranked the engine with the plugs in they probably caused engine damage. Hydrolocked. Then when whoever pulled the plugs and cranked the engine, opening the intake valves, pumped all the water in the intake and exhaust systems into the engine and now have a real mess. The intake manifold needs to come off along with the exhaust system and drained of water. The oil is now mixed with water and needs to be changed and boiled. Either take it to a dealer or get a service manual and follow the steps of servicing a water flooded engine or just walk away.

 

[benjilafouine]

It wasn’t sunken but it had a lot of water inside the bay and it was impossible to know if there was water in the engine. So basically you’re telling me that there is water as well in the exhaust.

So with a flooded engine that now turns without plugs, you’re sure that the exhaust is filled as well?

They wanted to give it a crank this morning and see if it would start. I definitely fogged the cylinders last night but I have only small hopes for them as the ski was filled for at least 4-5 hours.

Thanks.

 

[Milehighguy303]

My 2007 GTI SE 155 water ingested due to my exhaust cooling hose clamp failing where it connects at the rear of the hull. To make a long story short, member skiasylum and a local shop gave me good advice. Between the two, this is what I did, and I saved my ski - and I was in salt water. This is not textbook, but just what I did, albeit successfully.

Try not to panic. there is not likely enough force from just the starter turning over the engine to bend a piston connecting rod - I did it too. And i also hydro locked at idle, and still didn’t bend a rod or blow a head gasket. Maybe I was lucky…
I eventually pulled all three plugs and got a wet/dry shop vac and tightly got suction on top of the valve cover as I cranked the engine over. sucked each cylinder hole a couple times for about 30 seconds each. Held throttle lever down fully to disable fuel injectors.
Changed my oil And filter. Got noticeable Water out of the crankcase To start.
went back to the river and idled around for 2 hours with new oil and the oil cap off the engine and a roll of paper towels in my hands, cupped around the oil filler opening. Seat partially open, so I could see what was happening and holding the paper towels, changing towels when they got very wet and oily. Be patient.
Water vapor escaped for the first hour. Then saw some white oily residue in the filler neck for about 30 min. Then by the time I got to 2 hours, the white oily residue was evaporated and gone and I didn’t have obvious water vapor anymore.
Went home and changed the oil and filter again. No obvious water coming out this time, but milkshake Carmel colored oil from some water presence.
I had to change my fuel injectors due to salt water damage, but ski ran and still runs great. I have put probably 6-7 hours on it since my water ingestion in February. Sprayed my butterfly intake throttle body valve with WD40 to try and prevent some rust there.

hope this helps… good luck.

 

[benjilafouine]

Yes, thanks. I actually was able to crank it this morning and with new plugs, I even started it for one second although it stopped right away. I removed plugs again and there still seems to be some water in it. I don't know why it drowned but I suspect the carbon seal. This is not my Sea-Doo and I know nothing of the owner but I was told he kept it on a boat lift so he probably never knew that it had a leaking problem.

Sea-Doo is now out of the water and I will retry it this afternoon (guys brought it to my place but they forgot to leave the key...). I am pretty sure that the Intake is OK since the Sea-Doo did not go that deep. As for the exhaust, since it cranks OK, I guess that it must be OK too although there is some residual water left in the engine (my fogging oil because grey). As for engine oil, looks A1. Nice colour, no signs of water.

We called the Sea-Doo dealer and explained the emergency issue but they are booked tight until mid July... Local mechanics said he didn't take of that too. So the guys figured that I should try to salvage it. I'll give it a few tries and if I can't start it, I'll fog it again and it will have to wait for the fixing.

 

[Milehighguy303]

I know what you are experiencing - when I thought I had blown all the water out of the cylinders, stuffed paper towels down the spark plug holes, I put new plugs back in and my machine started right up and idled great… for a couple seconds and then stopped immediately - hence my reference to hydro locking mine at idle - like it sounds you did too. You have water still in the intake that is getting sucked in To the cylinders. It doesn’t take much to hydro lock either.
the shop manual tells you to remove the intake manifold and dump the water out. A jet ski shop gave me the wet/dry vacuum idea - and I think it was brilliant. It worked great for me. Follow my instructions - you will keep sucking in water if you don’t get it out of the intake manifold first.
And as a precaution, I strongly suggest to change the oil and filter Before you do the boil out procedure. If you have hydro locked, you have some water in the bottom of the crankcase you can’t see yet, until you do an oil change. And then you should do the boil procedure to get more water residue out (I idled around the river for 2 hours). Then I changed my oil and filter again after the boil out.
I think if you are patient, you can save this ski. I wish you the best.

 

[Milehighguy303]

What I am saying, is your intake is not OK - I got fooled too. It is tricky. get a shop vac and just make sure you suck each cylinder dry as you turn it over, like I mentioned. Just a little water will hydro lock you, or cause running problems. Your exhaust manifold shouldn’t be a major issue - air is pushing out of the cylinders to the exhaust and I personally wouldn’t be concerned with exhaust. But the shop vac idea will suck water from both intake and exhaust as the valves open. Hope this helps you and others…and hope you never need the advice again - Ha Ha.

 

[benjilafouine]

Shouldn't the oil be grey if it had been contaminated? I am fairly sure that the water didn't go in the manifold because the Sea-Doo was docked and even if it was deeply in the water, the water level did not reach the intake. But I am not ruling it out also.

I am so happy this is not my ski! Basically, it is the ski of a complete stranger who's renting a cottage here but they were told I am the best guy around who can save it although this ski seems in a pretty bad shape. There are all sort of debris at the bottom of the hull: debris, very dirty, engine oily, paint peeled, water bottle cap (and even saw a gasket piece).

I wouldn't give a cent for that ski.

 

[Milehighguy303]

if it hasn’t been ran extensively with water in the oil, then you won’t see any anything obviously wrong with the oil. The water is heavier than oil, so water just goes to the bottom of the crankcase, and without running the ski to make the Carmel milkshake oil color mix, you don’t see obvious water in the oil. When you start to change the oil, the first bit to come out will be water at the bottom of the crank case.
the reason I went back to your intake having water in it is because I did the exact same thing Starting my ski when all seemed dry. Why did yours and mine stop running immediately after a second or two? Because more water got into the cylinders. Nothing else would cause it to stop immediately. If nothing else, the wet/dry vacuum would be a great process of elimination step. But I am pretty sure you have some water in the intake. I had this attachment for my vacuum, which worked great to get a good seal on each cylinder.
not your ski, not for you to really worry about, but you can give the best advice to your new friends and if they want you to follow some reasonable steps to repair, you and others that may read this, have some good first hand advice to help.

 

[benjilafouine]

If I just fog the engine will it hold a week or two until it gets to the dealer? Is the intake the big black box just under the handles?

 

[skiasylum]

Well the service manual states if a water flooded engine isn’t serviced within a few hours the engine will need to overhauled.

 

[benjilafouine]

Yes I know. This year is a crazy year: no way to find a dealer that has time. People are left on their own. It is 24 hours already but most of the water is out and I added fogging oil last night. Now, from what I read, I should 1. Empty the intake, 2. Change oil a couple times, 3. Try to start the engine and run the hell out of it for one hour. I never did step one before but I definitely have the oil draining kit. Not being a mechanics, I was wondering if I will venture into that. I will pass the information to the owner and I’ll see what he says. If I pass on that, I will run with plugs open and fog heavily the cylinders and wish good luck to the owner.

 

[Milehighguy303]

The big black box is the air box, air comes in around the top of that box. But then there is a rubber tube from the box to the valve body, that begins the intake manifold. There are some nooks and crannies in the intake that can hold some water.
fogging will likely be very helpful for a couple weeks wait. I had salt water in my crankcase and some residue in my cylinders for a couple weeks, until I had time and good direction to solve my problem. The wait did damage my fuel injectors, and so my machine didn’t run well after all my efforts were finished, but a new set of injectors fixed it. So injectors are a risk, but I didn’t fog either. if I had been able to solve my issue quickly, I probably would have saved my injectors too.
So i don’t think it is a guaranteed loss to have water residue In there for a couple weeks, but they do need to get it out ASAP. the shop I called didn’t want to do the work, but they were willing to tell me what to do. And dealers are likely busy and pretty expensive, so I think we are often left to solve a water ingestion problem ourselves.

 

[Milehighguy303]

1. Get water out of the intake by wet/dry vac or actual removal of the manifold.
2. change the oil - filter probably not critical, but might as well Change too.
3.boil the water remaining out of the engine idling around for a long time with the oil cap off and paper towels to catch residue. I did it for 2 hours on mine.
4. change the oil and filter again
5. go ride and see if all is good. Hopefully it is. I had to change my injectors at this point, but that was it. Use fresh plugs too, to eliminate another possible issue. I removed the tube from the air box to the throttle body and sprayed the butterfly valve good with WD40 for good measure too. Mine is running great.

 

[benjilafouine]

if it hasn’t been ran extensively with water in the oil, then you won’t see any anything obviously wrong with the oil. The water is heavier than oil, so water just goes to the bottom of the crankcase, and without running the ski to make the Carmel milkshake oil color mix, you don’t see obvious water in the oil. When you start to change the oil, the first bit to come out will be water at the bottom of the crank case.
the reason I went back to your intake having water in it is because I did the exact same thing Starting my ski when all seemed dry. Why did yours and mine stop running immediately after a second or two? Because more water got into the cylinders. Nothing else would cause it to stop immediately. If nothing else, the wet/dry vacuum would be a great process of elimination step. But I am pretty sure you have some water in the intake. I had this attachment for my vacuum, which worked great to get a good seal on each cylinder.
not your ski, not for you to really worry about, but you can give the best advice to your new friends and if they want you to follow some reasonable steps to repair, you and others that may read this, have some good first hand advice to help.

I think your diagnostic is dead on. I just retried it three times and same result: engine starts for 1.5 second and then it stops fair and square. Then I remove the plugs and it is shooting water and gas and what’s remaining of the fogging oil.

I spoke to the guy who borrowed it and he told me he would bring it to the dealer later this week to know why it took on water (and to prove he didn’t provoked the problem). He really doesn’t care about fixing it.

So after my three tries, I fogged the cylinders again and turned the engine without the caps on (no fire) then closed everything and called quits.

If it was my Sea-Doo, I would have already done all the steps you provided and I would have probably done that in my AC equipped garage because it is steaming out there.

In conclusion, it is a bit of a shame because the engine starts. I could put one day on it and probably fix it. But it’s not mine and I’m not officially a mechanics…

Case closed (for me). Hope my efforts will save it.

 

[Busterboy]

Sunk rxt 260. In seawater.
Did all the right things, eg. No crank until removal of water in top end.
We then sucked out the sump via suction through the dipstick hole. New oil , start run repeat.
Attached is a picture of the oil at different stages of removal. New oil on the right hand end for comparison. Seadoo running fine with no problems. Thought this could be helpfull.