Dess Post Issue

[Carrujb]

Hello. I am having two, possibly related, issues with my 1997 Seadoo GTX.

My first issue is after installing a new Radioshack beeper, I only get two beeps from the DESS post lanyard connection every couple tries. It is very intermittent. I have a couple of questions:
-From what I have searched and read, do I just need to get a new DESS post and lanyard??
-If i buy both together, will I have to get the new key programmed?
-Would it be cheaper to just get a new key and get it programmed to my current DESS post?
-If I buy used ones together, does it have to be from the same model ski?
-Should I go used or start over and buy new?

My other (maybe related) issue is that when I first start the ski, the first time I rev the ski up it dies suddenly. If I try to restart the ski it gives one long beep (which I think means that it doesn't recognize the lanyard?). After removing and reinstalling the lanyard, I can restart the ski, but it still dies suddenly after revving it up. Curiously, I idled around for a while at 1500 rpm, then slowly increased to 2000 rpm, slowly increased to 3000 rpm, and continue this until I am running at full trottle, it suddenly brought the ski back to life and I didn't have this issue anymore for the rest of the day on the lake. It would start up fine when I get two beeps from the lanyard, and I can suddenly accelerate, decelerate quickly with no sudden engine dying. So thought I had fixed the issue until I put the ski back on the trailer started it up one more quick rev to blow out the water that was in the waterbox, and then it died suddenly. Are these issues related to a faulty lanyard/DESS post? It seems to me like it has a massive air leak, or some electrical problem (bad ground?). Could it be multiple issues?

Should I replace the DESS post and lanyard and see if I still have the second issue, and go from there?

 

[Coastiejoe]

The lanyard is programmed to your MPEM, not the DESS post.

If you replace the DESS post you will NOT need to replace the lanyard (unless it is also bad for some reason).

 

[Carrujb]

The lanyard is programmed to your MPEM, not the DESS post.

If you replace the DESS post you will NOT need to replace the lanyard (unless it is also bad for some reason).

Gotcha! Thanks for clearing that up for me!

Should I go new or used? New is $70 from watercraft superstore. I can to used for $30ish on ebay...

What do you think?

 

[Coastiejoe]

Contact [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] as he stocks many used parts for our skis. He can test them and what not.

But I'd diagnose your situation well before buying anything. There are specific and easy tests for the DESS system.

 

[Carrujb]

I looked around, but couldn't find any great explanations of tests. looks like there is a black ground wire, a black and yellow wire and a grey wire. The grey wire connects to the center and send the key code to the MPEM, and the black and yellow wire is checking to see if the key is connected.

So for a test, there should be no continuity between black and black and yellow with no key installed and continuity with the key installed. Is that what I need to check for? Is there any way to check to see if the grey wire is working properly?

Also, when I install my key, take it out and keep installing it to check for two beeps, after a couple tries, I stop getting two beeps. If I keep just pull the key out and put the key back in in the same orientation, I never get beeps. However, if I removed the key and turn the key vertical, with the inside of the key facing up and reinstall it, I get two beeps. I tried checking for beeps and turning the key vertical over and over in between checks, and after 30-40 tries it beeps every time. Am I crazy? Is my house built on an ancient Indian Burial Ground??? haha I read that there is a tiny circuit board and a magnet inside the key. Is it possible that turning they key upside down is repositioning the magnet to work properly, or fixing a short on the circuit board or something? Seems like my key may be the problem, right???

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Concerning the buzzer....

I have to ask this question b/c I wonder if the Radio Shack beeper is connected properly.... My understanding is this is the 273-068 buzzer and there are three terminals, one positive, one intermittent PULSE beep, and one CONSNT constant beep.

Have you used the POS and CONSNT terminals, (positive and constant) for the connection and not the intermittent beep terminal? ie: If you connect the beeper to a 12v source, it should be configured to produce a constant buzz?

 

[Chips]

I have to ask this question b/c I wonder if the Radio Shack beeper is connected properly.... My understanding is this is the 273-068 buzzer and there are three terminals, one positive, one intermittent PULSE beep, and one CONSNT constant beep.

Have you used the POS and CONSNT terminals, (positive and constant) for the connection and not the intermittent beep terminal? ie: If you connect the beeper to a 12v source, it should be configured to produce a constant buzz?

Not trying to hijack thread here, but I literally am having the exact same problem as OP and I have my Radio Shack buzzer connected to the POS and CONSNT terminals based on what you said in my other thread. Should I(we) have it connected to POS and Intermittent then????

Thanks!

 

[Carrujb]

I have to ask this question b/c I wonder if the Radio Shack beeper is connected properly.... My understanding is this is the 273-068 buzzer and there are three terminals, one positive, one intermittent PULSE beep, and one CONSNT constant beep.

Have you used the POS and CONSNT terminals, (positive and constant) for the connection and not the intermittent beep terminal? ie: If you connect the beeper to a 12v source, it should be configured to produce a constant buzz?

I'll try to pull it out tomorrow and check.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Not trying to hijack thread here, but I literally am having the exact same problem as OP and I have my Radio Shack buzzer connected to the POS and CONSNT terminals based on what you said in my other thread. Should I(we) have it connected to POS and Intermittent then????

Thanks!

That's possible! I think it should be configured for constant beep when connected to a steady 12v source, so you can test it and see which are the correct terminals. I've not used this buzzer before, so you can tell me and then we'll both know, tyvm!

 

[Coastiejoe]

I looked around, but couldn't find any great explanations of tests. looks like there is a black ground wire, a black and yellow wire and a grey wire. The grey wire connects to the center and send the key code to the MPEM, and the black and yellow wire is checking to see if the key is connected.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthre...pem-troubleshooting-guide&highlight=dess+test
Might provide some info for you...

 

[Coastiejoe]

Here more,,,

Blk wire to Blk/Yellow = Open Circuit
White/Gray wire to terminal on post = 0 Ohm
Blk to ring of post = close to 0 Ohm

Lanyard on...

Blk to Blk/Yellow = close to 0 Ohm

 

[Chips]

That's possible! I think it should be configured for constant beep when connected to a steady 12v source, so you can test it and see which are the correct terminals. I've not used this buzzer before, so you can tell me and then we'll both know, tyvm!

Ok, I just checked it out. It has to be connected to the Constant terminal....not the Intermittent one. I switched mine from Const to Int and tried it, and it wouldn't beep at all but the engines would turn over and start... Switched it back to Const and it beeps and starts... My key still goes in and out of connection if you just movie it around on the post...so maybe both the OP and I need to replace our DESS post and/or Keys...

 

[Coastiejoe]

Found this listed for the 1996 year, so the colors could be different then what I listed above...

on the post, black to black yellow (open circuit)
white gray to post center contact (close to 0 ohms)
Black to post ring (closed to 0) ohms

 

[Coastiejoe]

Also found this, this will test the switch within the DESS...

sure sounds like the post is doinked to me. simple test to see if the reed switch is hanging. Get quality ohmmeter, check for continuity when the key is on ( or a big honking magnet is nearby). Don't have a 2008 manual here, but it shoudln't take more then a few minutes to figure out what is what. If the switch closes reliably, start working your way to the expensive stuff.

The next post after this one was, he tried a magnet and the switch did close. Got a new lanyard programed and it started. Not saying this is your issue, just wanted to give you all that pertained to the specific post..

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Contact [MENTION=41828]Minnetonka4me[/MENTION] as he stocks many used parts for our skis. He can test them and what not.

But I'd diagnose your situation well before buying anything. There are specific and easy tests for the DESS system.

Yup I have plenty in stock.

One good test is to just hit the start button a few times w/o the key on the post. If everything lights up the MPEM is powering and basically it has to be the key or the post. keys hardly fail...

 

[Carrujb]

Thanks Minnetonka4me for the response. My info center is dead, so I dont think anyting will light up if I push the start buttom several times. If I trace the problems down to a bad post I'll let you know.

I had a bad info center and bought a new one off craigslist for $100 or something. Replaced it all and then after a couple times out it developed some awful short that would drain the battery from 12.5V to about 2V in a couple days of sitting. That freaked me out, so I just unplugged it and never replaced it. Really the only thing I want it for is the fuel guage...

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Not to brag, but if that would have happened with a gauge from my brother or I we would have sent you a replacement. We maybe a bit more expensive than the cheapest guy out there, but when theres problems we are sure to take care of it. We have this thing called integrity...something many people on ebay and craigslist do not. I just got screwed around by a guy on ebay with 10k feedback over a $20 part. Huge salvage guy cant eat a $20 part because he didnt send the part he had pictured and wont admit it?? Sad.


Ok off the soap box.

I assume once you unplugged the gauge and the short went away?

Does your beeper work? Hit the start button 5 times the diagnostic mode should short then long beep. If the beeper isnt working, use a test light or something.

 

[Carrujb]

That stinks about getting screwed. Its bound to happen to all of us eventually. Its a sad world we live in.

Yes, short went away after I unplugged the guage.

Yes my beeper works, so I will test for diagnostic mode when I get home.

 

[Carrujb]

One good test is to just hit the start button a few times w/o the key on the post. If everything lights up the MPEM is powering and basically it has to be the key or the post. keys hardly fail...

I hit the start button 5 times and I get the one short beep and one long beep like I should.

Time to rip off the cover and do the continuity check on the DESS post.

 

[Carrujb]

So when I'm testing across the black and black/yellow wires, I'm getting 0 Ohms without the key and about 12-15 MOhms with the key.

What does this mean?

 

[Carrujb]

From bad to worse

Well I think I may have found the problem. 12-20 Mega-Ohms seemed high, so I cracked open the connector. Looks like the connector had quite a bit of blue/green corrosion. I didn't really have anything good to clean it with, so I just did the best with what I had, and plugged and unplugged it several times. After that inserting and removing the key seemed more reliable.

So then I was going to crank it up to see if the engine would die suddenly as before, or if that was a seperate problem. As I was cranking, it seemed louder than before, but I thought that was just because I had the seats off. Then, I heard a loud noise (loud noises are never good) and then it sounded like my starter wasn't even engaging. I looked down and my barely used, aftermarket stater is lyingin the bottom of the engine. One of the tabs had cracked and broken off...

Well, two winters ago, I had to keep my jetskis outside and I had a leak in my cover, and had the plugs installed. When I went to start it up in the spring, it was half full of water. When it wouldn't start, I pulled the starter, a bunch of water came pouring out of the compartment with the starter/flywheel like the gasket had leaked. I was going to pull the engine, and pull the flywheel cover off, but I couldn't get some of my exhaust bolts off. So then, I just unbolted the engine from the engine mounts, and rotated it forward, to the right, and then backward to try to drain all of the water out of the hole for the starter. I also unbolted as many of the flywheen cover bolts as I could. Some where stubborn and I didn't have a good angle. I thought I had got all of the water out, but wanted to run it several times with the old starter before I got a new one. I did that and got a new one that had worked several times over the past year. I guess I still have some water/rust in the flywheel compartment, because after the starter broke off it already had some rust forming on it.

I attached a picture for your viewing pleasure.

I plan on removing the exhaust (I will try harder this time) and removing the engine and flywheel housing to see if anything in there is broke. I'll clean and oil/grease everything, put in new gaskets and try again. As for the aftermarket starter, I can't decide whether I will just JB Weld it back together or find a used original 787 starter on ebay.

Anything else I should do while I got the engine out?

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Yes...if you are going that far...pull the flywheel so you can pull the back mag housing off and replace the crank seal. When theres water in the mag housing, it will get rust on the crank and rip apart that seal. Clean the crank up with a scotchbrite pad, dab some grease on it and the new seal and reinstall. You might need the engine to housing gasket too.

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

If that starter was lying in the bilge, it makes me think the mounting bolts fell out. I'd probably look for another starter with good mounting ears and build a good reliable starter out of the parts if necessary, and once you clean everything up to your satisfaction then remember to use blue lok-tite thread locker to reattach the healthy starter to prevent the bolts from loosening again.

Lesson learned about how easy it is for a boat/ski to sink while sitting on the trailer..... I've seen trailers bent and mangled from the weight of a boat full of water.

 

[Carrujb]

Thanks again for the help on this guys. I think Sportster is right. It looks like the bolts backed out.