Buying 2002 GTX DI - White Smoke

[val-e-vue]

I have found a 2002 GTX DI with 190 hrs for $750 with a Karavan trailer. The owner says "it just started blowing white smoke".

I've been through two rebuilds of '98 GTX Limited machines and it seems like a reasonable price. I'm scheduled to pick it up on Saturday, would love to hear your experience with this symptom on this type of machine. It sounds like a failed head gasket but I'm guessing it doesn't stop there Let me know what you think!

Gregg

 

[Mraw]

The oil pump cable could have snapped. They default to wide open. Great price btw

 

[val-e-vue]

The oil pump cable could have snapped. They default to wide open. Great price btw

I would not have considered that option. Definitely will check and thank you!! I keep thinking I want a boat, but I saw this and couldn't resist. I think I really just buy projects

 

[Ckrawiec]

I've always been taught these "basic" troubleshooting tips:

1) white smoke is probably steam (water in the combustion chambers)
2) black smoke is burning too much gas (probably running rich)
3) blue smoke is probably burning oil (bad rings perhaps)

So, using those tips as a starting point....a failed head gasket/O-rings (water into the combustion chambers) is a reasonable analysis and starting point, combined with age and usage ...

AMEN on the projects...me too......there is nothing I can't fix (in my mind anyway, until I can't figure it our or the wallet shuts down - DOH!)

 

[mikidymac]

You are buying a DI ski with 200 hours that doesn't run correctly...........
I hope you have a lot of patience and/or money.

 

[val-e-vue]

I've always been taught these "basic" troubleshooting tips:

1) white smoke is probably steam (water in the combustion chambers)
2) black smoke is burning too much gas (probably running rich)
3) blue smoke is probably burning oil (bad rings perhaps)

So, using those tips as a starting point....a failed head gasket/O-rings (water into the combustion chambers) is a reasonable analysis and starting point, combined with age and usage ...

AMEN on the projects...me too......there is nothing I can't fix (in my mind anyway, until I can't figure it our or the wallet shuts down - DOH!)

I like your three tips! I think my Father taught me those back on the farm and they still hold true today. I think you have to have that attitude... "there is nothing I can't fix"!

Thanks!!

 

[val-e-vue]

You are buying a DI ski with 200 hours that doesn't run correctly...........
I hope you have a lot of patience and/or money.

Oh Miki D, you are supposed to be building my confidence LOL. So this is going to be worde than my GTX Limited project skis? I was hoping for better

 

[mikidymac]

So much worse than a carbed ski.

The DI is a strange and often times expensive beast and not like the other carbed skis.

1.At 200 hours you are already a the top end of the expected like of that engine.
2. You have to have good fuel pressure and verify it or it won't run. New pumps can be $700, 99.9% of the time aftermarket pumps don't work.
3. You need a way to read trouble codes like CandooPro $400
4. Fuel injectors to service.
5. Air pump to service.

Don't get me wrong, the DI is great when running correctly.

Once they have issues or you buy one that doesn't run it is a very deep and expensive rabbit hole.

 

[val-e-vue]

So much worse than a carbed ski.

The DI is a strange and often times expensive beast and not like the other carbed skis.

1.At 200 hours you are already a the top end of the expected like of that engine.
2. You have to have good fuel pressure and verify it or it won't run. New pumps can be $700, 99.9% of the time aftermarket pumps don't work.
3. You need a way to read trouble codes like CandooPro $400
4. Fuel injectors to service.
5. Air pump to service.

Don't get me wrong, the DI is great when running correctly.

Once they have issues or you buy one that doesn't run it is a very deep and expensive rabbit hole.

I appreciate the specifics and I see what you mean - yikes

I'm a glutton for punishment... this reminds me of buying an Audi, VW or BMW. High cringe factor... Deep breaths... Hope you all will be willing to provide some guidance

 

[Ckrawiec]

I like your three tips! I think my Father taught me those back on the farm and they still hold true today. I think you have to have that attitude... "there is nothing I can't fix"!

Thanks!!

The other troubleshooting thing about internal combustion engines [regardless of type carbed/DI]......strip away all the new fancy sensors, etc.....it still needs FAST....Fuel, Air, Spark, Timing. Eliminate each piece of the puzzle methodically and patiently (one by one) and eventually you get where you need to get (hopefully). Ski's are a giant PITA and labors of love....the thrill of the quest....blah, blah, blah.

For me personally, alone time [nobody bugging me] in the garage with a manual, a couple of cold ones (choose your poison), ballgame/music on in the background, tools all around....that's a little slice of heaven.

PS...there is no shame in failure [better to have tried and failed than to never have tried to begin with], some things just can't be fixed (or may not be worth fixing)...but figuring out WHY and the knowledge gained along the way is priceless.

Good luck with it and report back along the way...curious minds need to know!

 

[val-e-vue]

The other troubleshooting thing about internal combustion engines [regardless of type carbed/DI]......strip away all the new fancy sensors, etc.....it still needs FAST....Fuel, Air, Spark, Timing. Eliminate each piece of the puzzle methodically and patiently (one by one) and eventually you get where you need to get (hopefully). Ski's are a giant PITA and labors of love....the thrill of the quest....blah, blah, blah.

For me personally, alone time [nobody bugging me] in the garage with a manual, a couple of cold ones (choose your poison), ballgame/music on in the background, tools all around....that's a little slice of heaven.

PS...there is no shame in failure [better to have tried and failed than to never have tried to begin with], some things just can't be fixed (or may not be worth fixing)...but figuring out WHY and the knowledge gained along the way is priceless.

Good luck with it and report back along the way...curious minds need to know!

I like FAST... I think I can remember that since it actually makes sense! Totally agree with you on the "slice of heaven". It has become even more important during the pandemic. I will keep you posted! Thanks!

 

[val-e-vue]

The oil pump cable could have snapped. They default to wide open. Great price btw

I think you got me looking in the right direction. The cable seems to be ok but the oil pump actuator was stuck at full open. The cable was slack. I have sprayed the pump with WD-40, this is a salt water ski. It still moves very hard. I think I need to remove the pump and get it on the bench where I can see whats going on.

The ski starts right and and runs great, sounds great. The extra smoke that he was describing as "white smoke" seems to just be excessive injection oil. He had replaced the throttle cable recently because it didn't feel right. I imagine that it started feeling better once the oil pump stuck full open because at that point it's out of play. I actually mentioned that the smoke might be related to the oil pump but he had had enough of it and wanted it gone.

 

[mikidymac]

I wouldn’t chance that oil pump. Get a good tested used one for Westside Powersports Seadoo.

Sounds like your gable paid off, congratulations, it’s so nice when it’s an easy fix and not a nightmare.

 

[val-e-vue]

I wouldn’t chance that oil pump. Get a good tested used one for Westside Powersports Seadoo.

Sounds like your gable paid off, congratulations, it’s so nice when it’s an easy fix and not a nightmare.

Thank you @mikidymac ! I will do that. I will give them a call Monday. I'm sure there will be some more twist and turns but it seems like a good machine. Right now I'm smiling

 

[val-e-vue]

I should receive a replacement oil pump tomorrow from Jess at WPS. The oil tank is half full and the oil color is Blue. Is there a blue API-TC oil available? I'm leaning toward dumping the tank and flushing the lines and starting fresh with XP-S.

What do you think?

 

[Mraw]

I would dump it and use xps

 

[mikidymac]

Dump it. I think the there is only one blue API-TC and it is semi-synthetic and your's needs full synthetic. Also 99.9% of all TCW-3 is blue so I would not chance it.

 

[val-e-vue]

Dump it. I think the there is only one blue API-TC and it is semi-synthetic and your's needs full synthetic. Also 99.9% of all TCW-3 is blue so I would not chance it.

I have it out on the bench now. I have couple questions...
1) The oil only dribbles out the outlet line. The large line connected to the red elbow fitting. Is this normal? Clearly I can dump the oil out the filler tube, but I was surprised the output elbow would be so restrictive, even though I realize the oil flow rate during operation is probably slower than the dribble I am getting.

2) I have seen other posts regarding cracking of these plastic oil tanks. It looks like I have that issue. Is it time to replace? My 98's in Vermont were perfect, so I'm guessing the Florida heat has taken its toll on the plastic (swag).

Thanks!

 

[Mraw]

1. On all my oil tanks the oil gushed out of the elbow. Perhaps there is some debris or geled oil blocking it.

2. There was a thread not to long ago about repairing the cracks in these tanks. However I would just get a used one from fresh water pwc or west side powersports.

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, as said above the oil should come out quickly.
Never buy a used 2-piece oil tank for these as they will all leak. Many have had success welding them with plastic. If you can find a used 1 piece one from the 1996-1997 GSX that is the way to go.
For me personally I just buy a brand new one from seadoo for $100 and they last more than 5 years on average so for $20 a year I don't even bother trying to fix them.

 

[val-e-vue]

Great advice gentlemen!! Much appreciated.

 

[val-e-vue]

I back flushed the output port with low pressure air and it started flowing good. Once the tank was empty I pulled the output elbow and found a little surprise inside!! There was a chunk of hose connected to a check valve and a broken piece of plastic. It looks like this belongs in the filler neck.

I added a couple photos... I have removed the filler neck and I can see where the piece belongs. Clearly it's broken... not sure if I can fix it, so I'm wondering if I should try to buy one... I guess the answer is obvious

 

[mikidymac]

Yes, you really need that fitting to be working on the DI skis.

 

[XPLORx4]

I have an 02 RXDI and an 02 GTXDI. That check valve was broken off and sitting at the bottom of the oil reservoir in my GTXDI, and I have no idea how long it's been there. I found it when I replaced the tank because it was leaking at the seam. The RXDI is due to get its reservoir replaced before next season, because it is also seeping at the seam, and I'm pretty sure its check valve is also broken off and sloshing around at the bottom of the tank, too. I've had no issues with either watercraft after running over almost 2 gallons of oil through each this season, so I am not certain that removal of the check valve is an absolute no-no on the DIs.

 

[val-e-vue]

I have an 02 RXDI and an 02 GTXDI. That check valve was broken off and sitting at the bottom of the oil reservoir in my GTXDI, and I have no idea how long it's been there. I found it when I replaced the tank because it was leaking at the seam. The RXDI is due to get its reservoir replaced before next season, because it is also seeping at the seam, and I'm pretty sure its check valve is also broken off and sloshing around at the bottom of the tank, too. I've had no issues with either watercraft after running over almost 2 gallons of oil through each this season, so I am not certain that removal of the check valve is an absolute no-no on the DIs.

That's good to know. I am in the process of buying a new filler neck since I have it all apart. It seems to me that it's part of the emissions design. It looks to me like they made an effort to bring air in through the check valve and have all the oil fumes vent into the throttle body. I must admit the plumbing of the filler neck has one mystery and that is the hose that goes to the crankcase. I'm not sure what that is all about.

I appreciate hearing your experience!!