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Bad starter or not enough battery/amps to turn rebuilt engine?

mini4mw

New Member
Hey all. I've rebuilt a 2005 RXT 1503 4tec. (new rods, pistons, rings, bearings, heads machines, cylinders honed, valves lapped, spark and other misc parts) I've rebuilt a few SxS engines, but first SeaDoo. Pistons were a little tight, but I could still rotate the crank with a breaker bar and thought I'd be all good. I've got everything back together, however, if the spark plugs are in I get less than a full rotation when I try to start. Hit start and I get a 1/3 rotation and stop. Take the spark plugs out and she turns over fine 5+ seconds until I let go of the start button. The compression stroke blows a towel up on spark plug hole when they are not in. I pulled jet pump (it was rebuilt as well with new bearing/prop/ring and is a little hard to turn as well) and pulled the hose for the SC to reduce compression. Same issue. Hooked up battery jump and separately tried jumping off my truck, same issue. Put some oil down the spark hole and it turned over a little easier, sometimes 2/3 rotation instead of 1/3 (with sparks in). I tried one spark plug and it still only made it 1/3 a turn. Sometimes after a failed start the dash resets like it had no juice and was then plugged in to a battery. I'm pretty sure if I could get it turning it will start.

I'm going to charge the jump pack, perhaps use a car battery use jumper cables to terminal leads on the RXT in a few days ( I don't have it at the house). That should at least eliminate the battery issue. If it still won't turn over, do you think replacing the starter will fix? It appears to be the original starter (bought RXT used) Man, I hate to think of tearing this thing up again to get at that starter.. it was such a pain removing and installing the engine, electrical and hoses.. Too much compression may be causing need for extra power for turning over, but there's not much I can do about that...

So I suppose the question is, if I double up on battery (jump pack and car battery to get her going, parallel for high amps at 12v) and it still wont turn over with spark plugs in, do you think its just a worn out starter? Before I got it, it did turn over but wouldn't start; rings had rusted in piston and coolant was in the oil, 20 psi on each cylinder. It had gouges from piston ring impact on the head and had been rebuilt. Guessing the head was not machined and caused the leak as the intercooler and oil cooler are not leaking and head gasket looked ok to the eye, it just may not have been sitting flat enough due to previous damage.

Any other ideas besides rebuilding starter/buying a new one? If the compression is high, is it possible an old starter doesn't have the juice? It had 230hrs on it if I remember correctly. I also rebuilt the SC and its in good shape.

thanks-
 
ok, tried out a new battery and it turned over fine today. Didn't start, but turned over with sparks in.

Old (new) battery was 20ah, ~300cca. New one is 30ah, 385cca. The jump pack itself worked fine this time after charging up as well. Not sure why the jump didn't work unless I needed to leave it on the jetski battery to charge. Perhaps it just didn't have enough cca.

New battery is Diehard from Advanced Auto Parts:
DHPWO Battery: TX30L Group Size, 385 CCA, 30 Amp Hour Capacity, For Off-Road Use
Part # TX30LA

As for the not starting, fuel pump is not kicking in. Tracked it down to wires inside the tank to the fuel pump motor itself or the fuel pump motor. Strange one I'm still working on figuring out.
 
FYI, the electrical circuits on your year ski can be somewhat temperamental, one of the few skis with both a mpem and ECM and the fuel pump is connected to both. Jumping the ski with your truck or a battery pack with a bad battery is risky to say the least and the service manual considers it a no no. Hopefully you didn’t fry the ECM or mpem and your fuel pump is the issue.
 
Not sure why jumping would cause the issue, but I have read that it is a no-no. Power comes from the battery and is only limited by what is requested. I could definitely see a short, incorrect connection or misuse cause an issue, but just adding amperage should not, which is all you do when you add a jump pack or connect another battery in parallel. I think there's just a higher than normal possibility of touching something and causing a short which can cause serious damage is why they say don't do it.. you are putting to high amp leads down deep in a chassis. No electrician here tho, just rebuild stuff.

After digging through tests I found that the fuel pump is not kicking on. Hindsight, not sure I've ever heard it turn on (before I rebuilt it would turn over, but not start and I don't recall hearing the pump when the key was put on) Pulled pump out and checked out the wiring. pin 1 and 4 are +/- for the motor. 2|3 are fuel gauge. If I check 1|4, I have 12.5v with key on and the pump motor disconnected. plug in the motor and its 0v. Seems like motor is grounding out, but strangely if I bond 3|4 where 3 is the neg for the gauge the pump turns on. Also not sure how I'm grounding out between 1|4 (0v) if the motor works fine when I bond 3|4 (-) and plug in the motor. So the motor works, just not on its own pins. Checked pins, bypassed some connections and same issue. Fuel pump motor is aftermarket so its been swapped before. I bought a new one of Amazon and we'll see what it does. Same behavior and there has to be a bad connection somewhere, or it works like its supposed to and motor was bad.

Thanks for the input.
 
I agree with you completely on your jump charge feedback, also I am not sure from the fuel pump explanation if your aware that the ECM is supposed to be switching the fuel pump on and off by providing its ground, so are you getting it to run by providing its ground from the fuel gauge ground. If that is the case the ECM is kaput which how they normally fail.
 
Thanks, didn't know that piece. And that would suck if it is as I've already put so much into this thing already.

I could see the ECM cutting ground fast enough where as soon as I plug in the motor it cuts it. That is what I'm seeing
12.5v with no motor connected on +/- leads, connect motor and 0v. Bridge fuel gauge ground and motor turns on.

I'm going to try the new motor this afternoon and see if the same result is found.

If it is the ECM, any recommendations on where to get a new one? Ebay, Amazon, etc? I guess I'll need a new key or the post reprogramed as well? I don't have the bip or bits software (forget offhand the brp software name) so there's an additional cost too.

Thanks
 
Ok so the mpem is on the sidewall with the starter solenoid and the ECU is on top of the engine.

When you say 'thats how they normally fail' can you elaborate? You mean it's common for the fuel ground to be the one that stops?

Thanks
 
They fail by not providing the ground to components they are suppose to control, that’s what I meant by common. The mpem and ECM are both available on EBay. Westside Power Sports in Wayzata, MN program and sell mpems and ECMS. I would definitely give them a call if it’s not the pump.
 
Yea, so tried again, same result. Key on, 12.5v to pump pins. Plug in new pump, 0v. Bridge neg from fuel gauge to fuel pump, pump turns on.
 
Nick @ Westside plugged them in today and the fuel pump was turned off (assume in ECM and not MPEM). He had mentioned this happens when people go in there and fiddle around. The previous owner had lost the keys and had someone make one for him. They also tried to fix the non-starting issue (compression test would have shown why, it was less then 20psi on each cylinder, rings rusted tight on pistons). I'm guessing they turned if off by mistake. Hopefully I plug it in and it starts up pretty quick. I'll shoot an update next week when the parts come in.
 
Nick @ Westside plugged them in today and the fuel pump was turned off (assume in ECM and not MPEM). He had mentioned this happens when people go in there and fiddle around. The previous owner had lost the keys and had someone make one for him. They also tried to fix the non-starting issue (compression test would have shown why, it was less then 20psi on each cylinder, rings rusted tight on pistons). I'm guessing they turned if off by mistake. Hopefully I plug it in and it starts up pretty quick. I'll shoot an update next week when the parts come in.
I just read about that last week on a Facebook forum happening to guys with CanDoo Pros, they mess around with the fuel pump on/off function and it gets locked in the off position and won’t run again unless you input a unlock code. Crazy.
 
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