98 Speedster randomly dies....

[Mycoolsteel]

Our Speedster has died three times now randomly on three separate trips. After sitting for a few minutes usually it starts back up...... but not last night it stayed dead, until this morning I went out and started it right up!

So last night it was getting dark and we got out the navigation lights, turned them on and continued cruising for about 5-10 minutes. Then both engines just die :banghead: also the navi lights no longer work, the gauge lights don't work, and no spark! So I try to restart the engines and they crank but nothing! So while we are getting towed in (slowly) I continually try to start it and eventually the navi lights and gauge lights come on and the engines start. So I signal to our tow boat and just as they get us disconnected "boom" they die again with the same symptoms!!! Ugh

This is after boating all day pulling a tube listening to the radio with no problems at all! Any suggestions?

 

[Dr Honda]

Most likely... the lanyard post has gone bad. It's a common issue.

 

[RFoster130]

:agree: Sounds like the DESS post or lanyard. I was out on mine yesterday and like 3 times I accidentally bumped the lanyard and pulled it off while were going. Got kinda annoying. Try taking the lanyard off and on a few times when it acts up and see what it does. Try cleaning the post and inside of the lanyard with a pencil eraser.

 

[RFoster130]

If it is just the post, you can buy a new one for $70 brand new.

 

[Mycoolsteel]

Thanks for the replies :thumbsup: After all my research on this forum that's what I was thinking but I didn't understand why the lights and gauges were acting. So this morning when everything was "acting right" I noticed the lights worked whether the lanyard was in or not. Still the lanyard??

That eraser idea is great!
Also where can I get the $70 post? I was browsing the parts store on this forum and found it for $95...... I thought that was it any way

 

[RFoster130]

The light thing is kinda odd. That isnt tied to the lanyard. Mine work as long as the battery switch is on. Check all your electrical connections really good at the battery. Make sure they are all in good shape, clean and tight. Especially the ground. I would also check the connections on the back of the battery switch.

As far as price on parts, I try to promote the parts link on this page but it is kind of hard when other places have the same stuff so much cheaper. SBT carries the new post for $70.

 

[Gamerse]

Check your charging system fuse, if there are signs of sparking (black spots and pitting) on it anywhere, you may have a stator or rectifier problem. You can try unplugging the 15A charging system fuse (one side at a time)on the mpem. If one side or the other eliminates the problem, you will be looking at a rectifier or stator. This would connect your Mpem problem to your lights. The grey box should have a 20A fuse in a seprate holder, this is your main power buss fuse for all your accessories. Check it to see if it is blown. (probably isn't) The box under your hood has two 3 amp fuses, one of them is your lights, check it. You can also measure there to see if your lights are getting power to that point.
All the fuses under the hood are lower amperage than the main buss fuse in the grey box. My blower motor shorted out before I bought the boat. (learned this later) It will pop the under hood fuse, but not the buss, so don't be surpised if one is gone under the hood, but not the box.

Check the post before replacing it, grab a multi meter. Reach under the drivers cup holder, push up and remove for access. Disconnect the 3 pin connector. (may be four) Set to ohms, check the black to balck/yellow wires going toward the front. Should read less than 2-3 ohms with your DESS cap in place, and over 20K (OL or infinite on some meters) with the cap off. With the cap on, smack around the post and watch for a change in the meter reading. It should stay the same. It really doesn't matter what it does with the cap off. Clean connector and lube with white lithium grease to prevent corrosion, reconnect, reinstall cup holder. There is a continuity test to check the cap on the post, but what it means to the mpem is crap since it is looking for a magnetic signature, and your continuity reading isn't a representation of that accuracy. So you can't test everything on the post or cap. Its worth a look though.

Let us know what you find.
:cheers:
Ernest.

 

[Mycoolsteel]

First I'd like to thank everyone for taking time to help me out with this.

The post seemed to pass the "Gamerse" ohm test and none of the fuses are pitting or show any signs of wear.

I don't believe it is the ground or battery connections because I still have power to the radio and blower when everything else isn't working. I did check them though and all looked good.

This problem is very hard to diagnose because after the boat sits for a while all the symptoms are gone and everything is back to normal. Is there anything that links the Navi lights, gauge lights and engine fire? When all these aren't working I still have power to the radio and the blower and the 12v power source which is odd.

I'm kinda leaning against the post because of the lights also going off..... Not sure though just want to try and not waste $70 if that's not it.

 

[Gamerse]

I love the 98 wiring diagrams, I was looking at the 96 because I didn't feel like downloading the 98's (I'm on a verizon mifi in the country). Now I am glad I did. I figured the wiring worked the same, it does, just the 98 includes the radio, added some fuses, moved some fuses to the mpem and added more details to the drawing.

Anyway, I'm sorry if I confused you with the black box under hood comment, looks like it doesn't exist in the 98.

From what I see, the mpem's ignition, nav lights, gauge power, warning beeper and oddly enough, bilge pump all share the same internal power circuit, supplied by an external 20A fuse, but each component has it's own fuses as well. The only common denominator is the 20A fuse, and mpem internal circuit... The blower does go through the mpem, on the same power supply at the mpem's comp, (which is not the same supply as the ignition) and is on a separate circuit from what is malfunctioning.

Does the beeper still work when things go bad? Try shorting one of the temp sensor wires to ground to see. It shouldn't if you have lost power to the ignition.

There is nothing in the Mpem between your nav lights/bilge pump and the 20A fuse electrically, besides their respective fuses. The other components have a mpem relay that is turned on with the mpem security, anything you normally see turn on with the key.

I extracted the basic circuit from the FSM and turned it into a basic power flow chart. It is for the average joe to easily understand, that is why I didn't use correct symbols or just copy the manual and post it. Well, hope it helps, enjoy.
:cheers:
Ernest<------- my real name btw

 

[RFoster130]

That is exactly why i think it is just something simple like a loose wire. The lights do not go through the mpem. If you are losing the lights, it isnt the DESS post or mpem. Pull the battery switch out and check the wires on the back of it. Check the wire from the battery to the switch and check the grounds on the battery.

 

[Gamerse]

The lights do not go through the mpem.

According to the wiring diagrams, they do go through the mpem physically, they however are not controlled by the mpem. They just use the mpem as a power buss. You can help prove this by unplugging your mpem and seeing if the lights or the bilge pump work. Would not be the first time a FSM has lied to me lol. It would help this situation out, if you could test this for us as I don't own a speedster. Thanks in advance Foster.
:cheers:
Ernest.

 

[Slowmoe]

According to the wiring diagrams, they do go through the mpem physically, they however are not controlled by the mpem. They just use the mpem as a power buss. You can help prove this by unplugging your mpem and seeing if the lights or the bilge pump work. Wou. It would help this situation out, if you could test this for us as I don't own a speedster. Thanks in advance Foster.
:cheers:
Ernest.

try wrapping the "key" tigh wit electrical tape to give you a better connection

 

[BMANN06]

Interesting symptom and I agree with all posters, here is one more place to check if all the other connections have been looked at.

Underneath your helm storage container are all your grounding connections, make sure that all these connections are tight aswell. you will need to take a good look at them to inspect. I ended up tiewrapping mine up out of the way as water can collect in here and corrode the connectors. Maybe worth checking into ...

 

[Gamerse]

Good info^, to add to that, seadoo uses connectors to make some of their ground buses. It will look like a connector that has a cap on the end, inside, it will have a pronged metal strip that connects all the pins together. Follow above tip.
:cheers:
Ernest.

 

[RFoster130]

According to the wiring diagrams, they do go through the mpem physically, they however are not controlled by the mpem. They just use the mpem as a power buss. You can help prove this by unplugging your mpem and seeing if the lights or the bilge pump work. Would not be the first time a FSM has lied to me lol. It would help this situation out, if you could test this for us as I don't own a speedster. Thanks in advance Foster.
:cheers:
Ernest.

Due to the sensitivity of the MPEM, i dont really wanna mess with it and unplug anything. However, I did pull the battery switch out and I know that there is a smaller red wire that does control the bilge pump and lights. With that disconnected, the boat will not start. So it would be safe to assume that is the single power wire that feeds those items with the mpem. I looked and tried to follow that wire looking for the 20 amp fuse. I dont see it, the wire goes into loom and then goes into the MPEM where I cant see it.

The problem is not the post or lanyard, the MPEM does not need to communicate with it for the lights and bilge pump to work. They work anytime the battery switch is on, without the lanyard on. I dont think the MPEM is bad because the problem is intermittent. I really think there is a bad or loose wire. Its probably not the ground because you get it to crank but not turn over. I would check for that red wire and make sure it is tight on the battery switch and follow it looking for a bad spot.

 

[Mycoolsteel]

I haven't had a chance to get out there and take a look at the speedster but I won't leave you guys hanging. As soon as I look at all that was suggested I'll let everyone know. Thanks a million in advance though....

 

[Mycoolsteel]

Sorry I've been gone so long everyone I was outta of commision for a while...... I'm thinking Foster might be on to something with that red wire. I'm not sure if your talking about the main battery switch or if there is another one I'm unaware of. I'm headed out after work today to try solve the problem and will keep posted.

 

[RFoster130]

Yep, the main battery switch. Pull it out. You will see 2 posts on it. 1 post has the main cable from the battery. The other has everything that is powered when it is switched on. There are several red wires. One of them powers all that stuff and the mpem. Look for a bad connection or follow that wire to make sure is isnt pinched cut or corroded somewhere. On mine, i actually moved it over to the post with the battery cable. Now my bilge pump actually works even with the battery switched off.

 

[Mycoolsteel]

OK sounds easy enough! I sure hope that is the proplem, it'll be an easy fix. Since you moved your "red wire" over with the main batt wire do your lights work with the switch off as well?

 

[RFoster130]

yeah they do. i just make sure to turn them off. :cheers:

 

[Mycoolsteel]

I like the sound of that...... Ill let ya know hoe it goes :thumbsup:

 

[Bills86e]

A randomly dying symptom commonly is the DESS post, but could also be attributed to an exhaust leak asphyxiation, but can be ruled out by manually feeling-smelling or running with the compartment uncovered to breath fresh air in.

Bills86e

 

[crisso]

Has anyone checked that the battery isnt shot itself and everything IS charging.Motor dies 5-10 later it starts backup?I do agree with all that has been posted.But real basics need to be ruled out.A shit battery will give MOSTS of these symtoms.Please.Tell me if I am wrong.And dont hold back:cheers:

 

[Aliza]

Hi Guys, I have been having the same problem I noticed i could run all day with no problem what so ever but as soon as i turned my nav lights on i could only ride for 20 to 30 mins before everything shut down ! no nav lights bilge pump wouldnt work but radio and the lights under the seats would work! Well i checked my stator and it was corroded so bad that 3 of the yellow wires just dropped off! So i ordered a new one today and it should be here thursday and hopefully that will fix the problem i will keep everyone posted because i have read about this problem all over the net but know one bothered to say if they fixed it or not BTW i have a 1998 challenger 1800!

 

[Aliza]

Well guys after 7 hours out on the boat after replacng the stator i have had no problems boat runs perfect !! if anyone is having the same problems as i was, engiines shutting down and no nav lights but the next day the engine starts up fine check your stator !! I hope this helps someone out!