98 GTX 947, oil injection pump sync

[Mike99]

Hey Guys!

In prep for for changing out my oil and fuel lines this winter, I attempted to access the oil pump through the GTX glove box. My arms are not the longest, but I did manage to reach it. I was opening and closing the pump by hand, when the cable came loose off the pump. I managed to do my best imitation of Helen Keller, and was able to put the cable back on the pump. I noticed, though, that there seems to be some slack at both ends of the cable, and I can't see the alignment marks on the pump. The throttle is set up tight, with the slightest press of the throttle will move the butterflies. The oil pump does not kick in right away. I've included pictures of both ends of the cable for you guys to look at.

I'm not sure if it was tighter before I messed with it. I did notice that on one Helen Keller attempt, that the pump control wanted to turn farther than I should it have. It seems alright now, but does it have stops built into the pump? Maybe I was turning it the wrong way?? Could it be 360 degrees out, causing the slack?

Also, the oil pump adjustment mechanism on the carb seems impossible to adjust while the carbs are on the engine. How can you loosen the jam nut when you can't even feel it with your fingers??

Thanks!

Mike

 

[kicker]

Do you have tension on the spring. When the cable comes off, it is designed to spring back to 100% open. So it is possible while putting it back into position to put the cable back on you turned it the wrong way and now there is no tension there. By the looks of the pictures there is no tension there.

Be sure to get the notches lined up as well, the instant you hit the throttle you want that cable to move. The only adjustment for the cable is at the carbs, no way around it. If you cant get at it, try it without the airbox on, its only 6 bolts

 

[kicker]

Just another observation, but are those grey fuel lines on there? If so they must go. My suggestion would be remove the airbox, pull the carbs and go through them, clean out selector switch, change out the fuel and oil lines, and replace or add filters for both. Do it all at once.

 

[68ragtop]

Looks like maybe the spring on the pump is bad, Or like Kicker said, maybe it went wide open & the spring is no longer wound up?

 

[Mike99]

Kicker,

My pump is a mirror image of the one in the photo you attached. Mine is a 947, and I noticed the the shop manual showed the same mirror image layout as you provided. My cable comes in from the port side... Without any cable tension on my pump, it wants to rotate counter clockwise (looking to the stern). It is currently fully rotated counter clockwise do to the pump's spring tension, with the cable attached (loosely). Stop to stop, it only rotates less than 180 degrees.

As I stated in my original post, it was behaving differently while I was trying to first reinstall the cable. At one point it was rotating further, but in what direction, I do not recall...

At the other end of the cable, I can get to the adjustment nut, as my airbox is off. Aren't you supposed to loosen the jam nut before you adjust the cable adjustment nut? Or can you adjust without getting to the invisible jam nut?

Thanks for you help!

Mike

 

[68ragtop]

Mike, Kicker was just trying to show you the alignment marks. Your pump looks to be rotated clockwise with slack in the cable. The spring should be trying to turn your pump counter clockwise & if the cable was removed, it would go so far counter clockwise it would go past the marks & go wide open.
when installed correctly there should always be spring tension from the pump itself. seems like its unhooked.

 

[Mike99]

Mike, Kicker was just trying to show you the alignment marks. Your pump looks to be rotated clockwise with slack in the cable. The spring should be trying to turn your pump counter clockwise & if the cable was removed, it would go so far counter clockwise it would go past the marks & go wide open.
when installed correctly there should always be spring tension from the pump itself. seems like its unhooked.

My pump is currently fully rotated counter-clockwise under pump spring tension (looking to the stern) and sitting on it's stop. The cable is slack. I can turn the pump control clockwise about 180 degrees to another stop. Should I be able to turn the pump further than that, perhaps a full 360 degrees to attach the cable? I'm not understanding how this valve works, as if you said, cable failure results in a fully open pump, then mine is fully open at idle...

To Kicker: Yes they are vintage Tempo grey. I bought the GTX at the end of this season, and rode it twice before winterizing. It ran great on both occasions. This is all in prep of replacing the fuel and oil lines...

Thanks!

Mike

 

[68ragtop]

The pump has openings in it the regulate how much oil will pass depending on the position its in,

What looks wrong to me on your picture, is there is slack in the cable, but yet its already past the alignment marks. The spring should be trying to rotate it counter clockwise & taking up that slack as it sits in your picture. when everything is setup correctly, the alignment will look like kickers does in his picture. If the cable were to snap, the spring would rotate the pump even further, (counter clockwise in your case) but instead of that movement turning the pump off, it actually ends up nearly 180 degrees from wide open, & that position causes the pump to run wide open again. Hope that makes sense.


In other words, the spring on the pump, should always be trying to pull the cable in the other direction.

 

[Mike99]

The pump is under spring tension, but sitting on a "stop." It has turned counter clockwise as far as it can go, but is under considerable spring tension. Putting the cable on it makes no difference, as you can see the slack in the cable.

Can you rotate your pump controls past 180 degrees with the cable off?

I guessing I messed something up when the cable first came off. Right?

Mike

 

[68ragtop]

I don't have a 951 pump in hand, but I have one from a 720 & it will do a 360, only stopped by the spring when its hooked. I am not sure if the 951 has stops or not. But it sounds like your spring is not in the right spot.

 

[kicker]

ragtop was correct I was just showing the notches in that pic. Its from a 787 and turns the opposite direction.

There is something keeping that pump from moving. Normally when the cable fails or get unhooked all you have to do is turn the wheel clockwise until you can get the cable back on. Once the cable is attached you let go of the wheel and the spring tension will turn the wheel back counterclockwise to keep tension on the cable. Then make adjustments at the carb to line up the 2 notches.

From the pictures I would say it needs to be turned clockwise 360 to get tension back on that cable. You should not have to force it past any stopping points. If there is more then spring resistance while trying to move it, check the backside of the spring itself it might have jumped out of the slot and is preventing the wheel from moving freely clockwise.

Before forcing anything and breaking it, wait for one of the 951 guys to chime in to make sure the pump wheel will do a full 360.

 

[Mike99]

That's my hunch at this point, as well. It sounds like like I'll be removing the pump when I re-do all the lines.

To clarify, though... When you guys reinstall the cable on to the pump, you are winding it up, hooking on the cable, and doing the final adjustment using the adjustment nut. And about the adjustment nut... Do you have to loosen up the jam nut first, or do can you just wrench on the adjustment nut?

Mike

 

[Mike99]

our messages crossed in the ether... Yes. I will see if I can get a mirror down there and look. It did feel different. This may have to wait until I pull the tuned pipe.

Thanks!

Mike

 

[kicker]

That's my hunch at this point, as well. It sounds like like I'll be removing the pump when I re-do all the lines.

To clarify, though... When you guys reinstall the cable on to the pump, you are winding it up, hooking on the cable, and doing the final adjustment using the adjustment nut. And about the adjustment nut... Do you have to loosen up the jam nut first, or do can you just wrench on the adjustment nut?

Mike

I turn the pump to get tension and hook that end of the cable first. Then do the carb side, if it is unhooked. You will need 2 10mm wrenches to loosen both nuts for the adjustment. In your picture it looks like once you get the tension on the cable the notches will be very close to being lined up. So I dont think you will need any adjustment. Here is a couple pics how the cable hooks up to the carbs from my 787.

 

[- BiRkS_]

Here is a 951. My adjustment is slightly "richer" for oil because it was a new engine. As to adjusting the cable. I can get away with 1 10 mm wrench and holding the cable, then cracking the alignment nut loose. Remove the airbox. It just is 2 10 mm bolts for the upper "scoops" and pull the bottomh half off.

To tighten, I spin the jam nut tight and hold it, then snug up the alignment nut up with the wrench. You don't have to kill it, its got a lock washer after all.

 

[kicker]

Birks, if the pump is set slightly rich to start off, would it not be the oposite at WOT. My thinking is that when aligned properly at WOT it will be running 40:1 but if the wheel turns past that point will it not start working its way down from 40.1 to 50.1 and so on?

I was always afraid to set it a bit rich for that reason but was never sure.

 

[- BiRkS_]

For break in, you are not supposed to go above 80% throttle, so IMO for break in, it is OK.

As for the design of the pump. At max RPM, it is only capable of putting out the 40:1. and the fail safe (if cable breaks) is to open the pump WOT, it goes to full swing. So it should not matter. If i get a parts seadoo to work on, maybe i'll look into tearing apart a pump and posting a thread on all the components.

 

[Mike99]

Thanks, Guys for your help with this. I'll be checking the spring on the pump to see what is wrong. I see it hooked on the front side of the lever, but am unsure how the other end of the spring is retained. I bet I find my problem there...

You guys are the best.

Mike

 

[Mike99]

I wanted to close the loop on this thread. When winding the pump up for installing the cable, if you go a little to far, it would hang up, and not rotate back. If I rotated the engine's shaft by hand, the oil pump would spring back to tension, and work correctly. Not sure what was causing it to hang up internally, and once I stripped out the bleed screw, the point was moot... Minnetonka hooked me up with a used one, and I'm good to go.

Thanks for the help!

Mike