97 XP starting trouble, crap......

[bigler]

I was up at the cabin this week and I was driving like a warrior. nothing a seadoo cant handle though. i ended up tipping it a little and got some water inside the engine compartment. I kept driving and the siphons got all the water out by themselves. i finally was done driving for a while and i took about a 4 hour break from using it.



got back on to raise some more hell but it didn't start. turned over a couple times but other then that it just had a thud sound like it was halfway turning over every time. every now and then it will turn completely over once or twice but then it just does the one thud over and over again. I thought the battery was dead because i have had yet to charge the thing since i bought it. i charged it full and it turned over twice then did the same thing again. i took a video on my phone to show you the sound of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UE6SCvnibtQ

take a look and let me know if the battery is going bad, the starter is going bad or the engine is seized. im pretty stumped. im sure this has happened to you experts a few times on different watercrafts. timmy, karl, snipe, and the always smart chester can all probably solve this in their sleep.

thanks in advance for you valued knowledge guys :hurray:

 

[CAVPILOT]

UH-OH...I had that exact sound from mine and sure enough, engine was seized. The "clunking" noise on mine was the crank turning 1/8 of a turn at a time! (I watched the pistons with the sleeves removed.)
Hard to believe it would seize in just 4 hours, though?!?! Pull your spark plugs and coat the cylinders liberally with fogging oil (or equivalent) and let it sit for about 5 mins. and then try cranking with the spark plugs REMOVED. (be certain to ground your plug wires first) Once you get it turning it may blow water out of the spark plug hole (a certain indication you ingested water)
If that's the case, keep cranking with the spark plugs removed until all water is out (keep fogging the cylinders from time to time) Once its out, get her running and back on the water to "burn" the rest of the water out.
Of course, it could be something as simple as a LOOSE starter cable....reach under and feel for it.
Best of luck!!!

 

[bigler]

crap. this thing only has like 40 hours on it. it has turned over though which confuses me. watch the youtube video and you will hear the first time i try to start it. it turns over . it only does that sometimes though. i dont have any experience with fogging the engine yet so ill see what i can do.

 

[kustomkarl]

From the sound in the video it could be a seizure...remove the spark plugs and see if it turns over. Do a compression test to see what's going on inside, if it spins over. It ideally should be at 150 psi per cylinder.
If the compression is good check the battery ground and the connections on the battery too. It just might not have a good connection.

Here is some information on a compression test;
To test compression, remove both spark plugs. Place spark plug caps on the plug cap studs near the cylinder head to ground the empty caps. This completes the circuit of the ignition electrical system and prevents any electrical problems from the caps being un grounded. Using the correct adapter for the threaded end of the tester,( same length of the spark plug threads length)screw in the tester in one plug hole. Hold the throttle wide open. Push the start button. Watch the compression guage, when it peaks out at the most compression, let go the start button. Read the psi number. I would do it 3 times to be sure it is accurate. Check both cylinders the same way. The ideal compression is 150 psi per cylinder. If it is less, it's not a problem as long as they are close to being the same. If the psi is less than 90 it might need be time for a tear down and a rebuild. If the psi in 1 cylinder is say 140 psi and the other is 80 psi you need to tear down and repair. This difference is a lot then there is a problem. I hope this helps you.

Karl

 

[bigler]

ok im still a little confused on grounding the plugs. i take plugs out, then do i put the wires back on the plugs? then where do i place the plugs when i try to start it.

i dont have the tools for a compression test i dont think so i have to skip this part. im just going to assume its seized. i will go and get some fogging oil tomorow and try to get the thing to free up.

im really having a hard time believing that its seized because there wasnt that much water in the hull and i drove until all the water was out. plus there is hardly any hours on this thing. it is most likely going to be seized more since i have been letting it sit. it all happened 2 days ago. im pretty bummed about this.

ill try what you said cavpilot. i just need to understand better how to ground the plugs and what kind of fogging oil i should use. and how to i "coat the cylinders with fogging oil"? do i just put the fogging oil in both the plug holes?

any details you can think of are probably needed because i havent fogged an engine before and i dont know too much about any of this. i really want to learn and hopefully save myself from spending a grand on a engine rebuild.

thanks alot karl and cavoilot for the help

 

[kustomkarl]

On the engine you will see 2 studs that the spark plug caps will push on to. You need to do this, so you won't over load the electrical system. Just set the spark plugs aside. If you just leave the removed spark plugs in the spark caps you take the chance of one or both not getting a good ground and causing electrical problems...use the grounding studs.

I hope you understand. If you still have a question don't be afraid to ask. It's better to ask than assume something and cause more problems.

Karl

 

[KSUBrian]

sounds to me to be more of an isssue of the starter not getting enough power to turn it over. Mine was doing this when I first got it out of storage this year. Took battery out and it tested as bad. Put in a new battery and it spun over like a top. If you were riding pretty hard, the jarring could have caused battery problems, especially if the battery has some age on it.

 

[bigler]

thanks brian that will help me sleep tonight. even if it isnt true, it will help me sleep thinking that could be the problem. haha

 

[KSUBrian]

LOL. I hope the battery is the problem. BTW, I have been told the gel batteries hold up better to the jarring that can occur in a jet-ski. Good luck.

 

[CAVPILOT]

Hopefully it is just the battery...
hmmm, gel vs acid. Makes sense to me!!

Also bigler, join this forum (if not already) and get the manual...it will have a troubleshooting section that shows you how to get rid of water in the engine (if that is your case) Also, it is a wealth of info., as is this place!!!

http://greenhulk.net/forums/index.php

for manuals, go here...

http://greenhulk.net/forums/showthread.php?t=62613&highlight=manuals

Good luck!!!!
atriot:

 

[bigler]

Update help fast!

ok so i just took out the plugs. i plugged the wires onto those squarish looking studs that stick out on the site of the engine. right where the exhaust pipe is kinda. then i tried starting it and guess what. tidal wave.... every time i start it, i get a big splash of water. so i think we can conclude it was seized a little bit. but the other thing now is the fact that there is a good ammount of water in there. how do i get it all out? keep cranking it? then should i put some fogging oil in the plug holes and turn it over a few times? let me know. but with the plugs out, it turns over just fine. but alot of water is coming out of those plug holes


:hurray:

 

[CAVPILOT]

ok so i just took out the plugs. i plugged the wires onto those squarish looking studs that stick out on the site of the engine. right where the exhaust pipe is kinda. then i tried starting it and guess what. tidal wave.... every time i start it, i get a big splash of water. so i think we can conclude it was seized a little bit. but the other thing now is the fact that there is a good ammount of water in there. how do i get it all out? keep cranking it? then should i put some fogging oil in the plug holes and turn it over a few times? let me know. but with the plugs out, it turns over just fine. but alot of water is coming out of those plug holes


:hurray:

OK...how long did it sit between your rides? 4 hours? If so, IMO, I would keep cranking (with the plugs removed) on & off until no more water is blowing out! 4 hours isn't terribly long, but make sure you don't stop until all the wateris OUT! Spray some fog oil in the plug holes every so often to keep the sleeves well oiled!!! I don't know what other oil you can use in the cylinders but I would imagine any heavy oil would work, i.e., 30 wt. oil.
You're prolly going to need to recharge the battery several times to get all the oil out (I most certainly did!!!) Once the water is out (and you'll know because the engine will hydro-lock on you if you don't, which is what its doing now) get it running and keep it running to heat everything up and remove all remnants of water.

 

[kustomkarl]

Here's what you do in a water flooded situation. Spray some wd-40 in the cylinders so it will displace the water and add a small amount of lubrication to the internals. Keep cranking it over till no more water comes out of the cylinders. ONLY CRANK IT FOR A FEW SECONDS AT A TIME, SO IT WON'T OVER HEAT THE THE STARTER. When no more water comes out of the cylinders add about 3 oz of gas and oil ( same as you use in the seadoo) as a pre mix into the cylinders,add it in the spark plug holes. Install fresh spark plugs and see if it fires up. If it just stutters, remove the spark plugs dry them, and try it again. It has to fire up. When it does fire up, only run it for a couple seconds so it won't over heat. Now connect the hose to the seadoo and fire it up again. When it fires up, turn on the water, and run it for no longer then 5 minutes on the hose. If you do, the impeller bearings and seals in the jet pump will get over heated as they get cooled from the water when it is in the water. If you can, go for a ride and run it so any water in the engine will dissaparte from the heat of riding. The longer you let the seadoo sit with the water in it the more damage it will do.

Karl

 

[bigler]

ok well i wish i read karls last post before i did all this but i got it working! i sprayed some wd40 in the holes this morning and then went to work for a few hours. i bought some fogging oil and went straight home to work on it. i pumped all the water out and added fogging oil every now and then. i then put the plugs back in once all the water was out that i could see and tried firing it up. nothing. same thing, big clunk. but then i threw on my other battery and BAM.. fired right up! i put the hose on it and ran it for a good 20 minutes or so. sounds like thats way too long. oops. i also cranked the starter for a good 20 seconds at a time or more when i was pumping the water out.

i hope me screwing up on those things doest do any damage. it starts up the second i hit the button though and it all sounds fine so i dont think there is any damage. i didnt put the oil and gas in the plug holes either.

i wont have a chance to put it in the water and drive until sunday probably though. do you think thats bad? i ran it for at least 20 minutes this evening though so i would think i burned the water out.

thanks a ton for the help guys. i learned a lot from this. i guess i need to drive my xp like a grandma now.... no tipping it over :cheers:

 

[kustomkarl]

Seadoos are a great toy...they aren't made to run upside down. You can run it for an extended time on the hose if you also spray the jet pump shaft area with some water, to keep it cool.
You should be fine...go run the heck out of it Sunday. Bring some extra spark plugs properly gaped (NGK BR8ES .021-.024") just in case one is fouled form starting with some water still left in it.
I couldn't post today, I was away from my puter, till earlier tonight.

Karl

 

[CAVPILOT]

i guess i need to drive my xp like a grandma now.... no tipping it over :cheers:

And why's that?? Now you see how easy it is to work on them. Ride it like you stole it...that's my motto!
Barring any electrical nightmare, you can fix everything on these ski's! This forum has all the experience and help you'll ever need!!
Good luck :cheers:

atriot:

 

[teckert]

Hi, can someone help me understand how the water got in the engine in this case? If he was running it and everything was fine, why did it lock up with water in it when trying to re-start? He stated there was a little water in the hull, but that shouldn't hurt anything right? I'm really curious about this since the exact same thing happened to me today. Thanks for all the detail in your responses, it led me to go out and get it running tonight at 10:00 after reading that I shouldn't let it go overnight. I got it running and feel much better now, just confused on why it happened to begin with and how to prevent it in the future. Thanks.

 

[bigler]

yeah i learned alot from this. i think what happened to me was it tipped on its side and the air intake on one side got a bunch of water in it and while the machine was running, water went into the engine. i think the engine ran a little longer then it should. typically when it flips over, the key is pulled and the engine is shut off fast. then u just make sure you tip the ski over in the right direction. the sticker on the back will tell you the right way.

 

[teckert]

Thanks for your replies. This was only the fourth time we've had it our since buying it so I'm still learning about it. It makes sense about getting into the filter box. I found the large holes under it which I didn't realize were there. So that makes it a lot more obvious to me how the water will get in the engine. Is there any way it can get in through the exhaust? On a two stroke dirt bike, the exhaust port of the cylinder goes straight to the exhaust pipe if I recall. So do these skis have some sort of a check valve in them to prevent the water from backing up into the engine?

Todd

 

[SurfBeat]

Hey, I listened to your Utube video and wondered, do you have my Doo?? Same sound!!

 

[97gsxRIDER]

I had the same issues at one point in time.....now I'm having others, check my post and help!!!