215hp 4tec oil in '08 (confused!)

[top_speed]

Read several posts here about crankcase oil in the 4 strokes, kind of confusing on what the bottom line is on an '08.. do they have Stainless or Ceramics then?

I've always had 2 strokes in the past and never had to worry about crank oil (at least in the ski's). I run all synthetic (ie Mobil-1) in my car (Caddy CTS) and truck with never a drop used and great extension of oil changes compared to simple petroleum oil.

I was using synthetic but will stop asap if I'm creating voodoo for my almost brand new 08 Seadoo GTX Limited.

Thanks
-KJ

 

[kustomkarl]

Seadoo recommends to use mineral 4 stroke oil in the Super Charged models.

Karl

 

[top_speed]

Thanks, I seen that in the manual but also Mfgr's also state "use only XXXX lubricant" which is brand specific to them and we all know that's "doo-doo" (like Bombardier, Yamaha, Polaris etc. actually have their own refineries

Anybody running synthetic in the supercharged models??

 

[rookie101]

Read through this thread.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?t=12024



Aaron

 

[kustomkarl]

If they do, it voids your warranty and blows up the ceramic washers and takes out the oil pump too. This is not covered under warranty.

Karl

 

[DCKD]

Thanks, I seen that in the manual but also Mfgr's also state "use only XXXX lubricant" which is brand specific to them and we all know that's "doo-doo" (like Bombardier, Yamaha, Polaris etc. actually have their own refineries

Anybody running synthetic in the supercharged models??

I would use mineral oil esp if you are under warranty. Your just giving them ammo if something goes wrong and they might give you a hard time getting it fixed if your not using the proper oil. The 08 washers are ceramic coated so there could still be a problem. I would not take the risk...esp since it is explicitly stated in the manual to only use mineral oil in SCIC models.

Matt

 

[seadoosnipe]

Supercharged.....

The non supercharged 4-TECs'a can actually use any 4-Stroke oil they so choose as long as it meets the API designation of SM, SL or SJ. The weight requirements are 20W-40 in mineral and 5W-40 in synthetic.

But the supercharged models give specifics to only use the BRP XP-S mineral oil or equivalent. The reasons they state are because of the additives. If you use a mineral oil, lets say Vavoline, and it's got the same API designation that your ski uses, BRP is saying that if they have one or more additional additives, they could cause harm to the clutch washers.

BRP goes on to say that if you change oil to another brand while under warranty, it voids it.

This is all stated in the Owners manual for the 2008 models.....:cheers:

 

[top_speed]

Thanks guys, good input and advice, I'll take it. My 08 ski has had 1st service done by dealer now I take over (hence my q's on this)

Any links on the BRP mineral oil with lowest pricing?

 

[sporsterjoel]

Thanks guys, good input and advice, I'll take it. My 08 ski has had 1st service done by dealer now I take over (hence my q's on this)

Any links on the BRP mineral oil with lowest pricing?

make sure your dealer used mineral oil cause alot of them dont. When the 4-tec motor came out it was designed to use synthetic oil. BUT when the supercharged model came out seadoo realized that they couldn't use synthetic oil. So i believe there is still alot of people/ dealers that dont know theres diffrent oil requirement between the 155hp NA motor and 215/255hp SC. Id call them and just ask if they used synthetic oil when they did the oil change and see what they say.

 

[kustomkarl]

make sure your dealer used mineral oil cause alot of them dont. When the 4-tec motor came out it was designed to use synthetic oil. BUT when the supercharged model came out seadoo realized that they could use synthetic oil. So i believe there is still alot of people/ dealers that dont know theres diffrent oil requirement between the 155hp NA motor and 215/255hp SC. Id call them and just ask if they used synthetic oil when they did the oil change and see what they say.

uh ......you mean COULDN'T use synthetic oil

Karl

 

[sporsterjoel]

good catch i changed it. LOL watching TV and typing doesnt work to good :boxing_smiley:

 

[dieselman]

The reason you should not use syn. oil in the SC models is it is to good and could makes the creamic washers spin faster causing to much boost and blowing the motor. The sny. oil is great for the motor part just not the SC. It is like some ATV oil you must use atv oil in some automatics becuse car oil is to slippery and will cause the clutchs to slip same idea as the SC.

 

[top_speed]

The reason you should not use syn. oil in the SC models is it is to good and could makes the creamic washers spin faster causing to much boost and blowing the motor. The sny. oil is great for the motor part just not the SC. It is like some ATV oil you must use atv oil in some automatics becuse car oil is to slippery and will cause the clutchs to slip same idea as the SC.

Interesting if true.
I ordered in some BRP XP-S mineral (cuz I'm a chicken doo)

 

[seadoosnipe]

SC problems....

I don't know if Dieselman is onto something but from experience in debates with him, I know he knows his oils.

But, the fact of research from BRP said they problem started from a dealer putting in the synthetic oil. The Rotax engine requirements for so many years has said to use synthetic that a dealer (they come to the dealerships dry of gas and oil) must have made the mistake and used it in the SC and SCIC motors. I'm sure it was more than just one dealership.

The research shows that the ceramic slip washers in the superchargers, although the best material to insulate against heat in a shaft rotating in excess of 40K rpm, is a substrate that is affected by other chemical compounds. The properties of the synthetic oils has an additive that slowly dissolves the ceramic material. It happens over a course of time. It won't blow the charger at the moment it is used. You can also see this from the screen of the oil filter. Your not even suppose to use an alternative mineral oil to that of the BRP brand because of detergent additives of most makers oils. What ever additive it is (detergent/non carbon deposit building), Rotax is not giving any other details.

So, they have switched to washers that are stainless and less compatable to insulate against heat. But now, I understand that they are using a newer ceramic coated stainless (I haven't seen this in research as of yet, only by word of mouth, which I consider "here say"........

So, .....I can see what dieselman is saying because the properties of synthetic oils are designed to have a molecular structure that covers 100% of bearing lubrication verses 60% of that from a mineral oil, this is not what I"ve learned through the research of BRP's issue with the SC slip washers.....:cheers:

 

[sporsterjoel]

The reason you should not use syn. oil in the SC models is it is to good and could makes the creamic washers spin faster causing to much boost and blowing the motor. The sny. oil is great for the motor part just not the SC. It is like some ATV oil you must use atv oil in some automatics becuse car oil is to slippery and will cause the clutchs to slip same idea as the SC.

I totaly disssagree with this. When the washers slip you will have lower boost pressure. Only way to increase the boost level would be to increase your rpms with a riva ECU and add a higher psi supercharger wheel and ever then you will not blow this motor from high boost. The 4 tec can handle 15psi of boost with no internal engine mod. Only mod you would need would be valve spring retainers to prevent valve float at higher rpm witch is caused by riva's 8500 rpm ecu,
I do agree when you say to much slip though from using syn oil, cause i think that they slip more with syn oil then mineral oil witch will wear them out alot quicker causing them to break. But either way no one really know why they go but its proven they just dont seem to last.

 

[youngglen]

I totaly disssagree with this. When the washers slip you will have lower boost pressure. Only way to increase the boost level would be to increase your rpms with a riva ECU and add a higher psi supercharger wheel and ever then you will not blow this motor from high boost. The 4 tec can handle 15psi of boost with no internal engine mod. Only mod you would need would be valve spring retainers to prevent valve float at higher rpm witch is caused by riva's 8500 rpm ecu,
I do agree when you say to much slip though from using syn oil, cause i think that they slip more with syn oil then mineral oil witch will wear them out alot quicker causing them to break. But either way no one really know why they go but its proven they just dont seem to last.

I just came back from my sea doo dealer to buy the mineral for my 215sc and they said sea doo doesn't make the pure mineral oil any more and now they use a blend. Has anybody else know any thing about this?

 

[top_speed]

Correct, Seadoo now has a synthetic "blend" and it is approved and made for the SC 4tecs. The part# is 293600121 for the quarts. Retail is around 9-10 bucks, I just picked up 2 cases (24qts) for 174.00 (7.25/qt) + 19 shipping for both cases.
Interested see: www.jmcamper.com/sunshop


Also as a side note, AMSOIL has made a totally synthetic oil for the SC/4tecs with the washer problem in mind. Do a google for AMSOIL 4-Stroke Marine Oil (WCF) and you will find a pdf spec sheet just for the Doo's Slip washer issue.


Cheers!
KJ

 

[sporsterjoel]

I just came back from my sea doo dealer to buy the mineral for my 215sc and they said sea doo doesn't make the pure mineral oil any more and now they use a blend. Has anybody else know any thing about this?

If your still using the ceramic washers i wouldnt use seadoo's new semi syn oil, It design for use with the new 2008+ models cause most ceramic washers have been upgraded and fased out by now. Also Top speed is correct Amsoil marine oil can be use in ALL seadoo model's.

 

[youngglen]

If your still using the ceramic washers i wouldnt use seadoo's new semi syn oil, It design for use with the new 2008+ models cause most ceramic washers have been upgraded and fased out by now. Also Top speed is correct Amsoil marine oil can be use in ALL seadoo model's.

I still have the ceramic washers and I just did a slip check with a torque wrench and it is 55 in/lbs before it turns. To all of you, does anybody know if this is good or bad. does anybody know how much torque it would take before you trun the engine over, you know kind of acting like a starter.

Thanks

 

[Sibpd893tf]

Oil?

As of this date, can someone tell me exactly what oil should be used for the 2008 - 215 Supercharged 4tec's? Seems to be pretty confusing now that BRP doesn't supply mineral oil any longer!

 

[big jack]

I bought some of the mineral oil from a dealer a few month back to do the oil change before the season. I had to call around to find one that had it but they are out there so call around. You definitly want to use the mineral oil and NOT the synth blend stuff they have now, even when they say BPR recommends it. I wasn't going to chance it but I have a 2007. After this season i plan to have the SC rebuilt or may try it myself.

What i can't believe is the BPR won't recall these and put in what should have been in them from the begining. Mine is still under warrenty but reading all these posts on this make one a little nervous.

 

[sporsterjoel]

As of this date, can someone tell me exactly what oil should be used for the 2008 - 215 Supercharged 4tec's? Seems to be pretty confusing now that BRP doesn't supply mineral oil any longer!

regular motor oil is the same as mineral oil just make sure it has the same specs and youll be good to go.

 

[top_speed]

As of this date, can someone tell me exactly what oil should be used for the 2008 - 215 Supercharged 4tec's? Seems to be pretty confusing now that BRP doesn't supply mineral oil any longer!

It seems most local dealers who have "exhausted" their supply of Mineral Oil are doing exactly what Bombardier is telling them "sell 4tec customers the Semi Synthetic (Qts BTW are Seadoo part# 293600121)

Now to all the riff about the synthetic effecting the ceramic.... Apparently BRP has not incorporated any of the properties that will dissolve the ceramic coating in their new semi oil. I would re-check with your dealer but this is the word on the streets (or lakes

Also to answer (a few posts above)... if your SC slips premature, you will lose RPM not over-rev or gain rpms. Most find that around 6K (6000+ rpm) that if they give it more gas to go faster (or higher rpms) the slippage starts. NOW when this state is met your engine "stalls" or almost feels like it's being held back. This is b/c the engine wants a lot more compressed air to meet the rpms but isn't getting it... hence the high rpm stall factor. This is SC slippage plain and simple.

If this is happening to anyone I strongly urge you to promptly service your SC. These SC are tricky and require a special tool to "torque" and set them. Don't do it yourself unless you know what your doing, I suggest sending the SC out to Jerry. He is the SC guru!

 

[Mr Mufakka]

I've got a 2009 GTI (obviously not s/c). My 10 hour service is upon me. I had planned on using Mobil 1 as I use it for everything else but I decided to wait until my 1 year warranty is up. After it is up however, will I be ok to use 5w-30 synthetic Mobil 1?

 

[dieselman]

I totaly disssagree with this. When the washers slip you will have lower boost pressure. Only way to increase the boost level would be to increase your rpms with a riva ECU and add a higher psi supercharger wheel and ever then you will not blow this motor from high boost. The 4 tec can handle 15psi of boost with no internal engine mod. Only mod you would need would be valve spring retainers to prevent valve float at higher rpm witch is caused by riva's 8500 rpm ecu,
I do agree when you say to much slip though from using syn oil, cause i think that they slip more with syn oil then mineral oil witch will wear them out alot quicker causing them to break. But either way no one really know why they go but its proven they just dont seem to last.

You are right my mind was on the wet clutch of the ATV the sea-doo would lose boost