2001 Challenger 180 - 240 HP m2 Jet Drive smokes excessively at low speed/idle...

[audidudi]

I just bought a 2001 Seadoo Challenger 180 a few months ago and have had it in the water a few times. Every time it runs it smokes excessively through the exhaust at idle. It seems like the engine is getting too much oil. We changed the plugs and they were fouled and it ran clean for a few minutes then started smoking again.
I've read through a few posts and changed the engine temperature sensor which hasn't seemed to make any difference.

At high speeds/RPM's the smoke disappears. At idle when we gun the engine, it leaves a plume of smoke.

I've also been looking at adjusting the Oil Injection Pump by shortening the link rod but it didnt make an immediate difference.

Any advice is welcome. Do I need to change the plugs again? Is it dangerous to shorten the link rod? How will i know when i get the oil fuel mix to the right level without damaging the engine?

Thanks,
Dean

 

[Dr Honda]

First... Welcome.



Second... don't just adjust the oil pump !!! You can burn up the engine !!!! Basically, there is a mark on the pump, and that's the "Leanest" point. From there... either way is MORE OIL. So... a random adjustment, can feed you more oil at idle, and then starve the engine of oil at higher RPM's.

If your idle RPM is OK... then adjust the rod length so the scribed line on the pump arm, is in line with the line on the pump body.


If that doesn't help... then check:

1) Make sure all 6 plugs are firing.

2) check the Throttle position sensor for proper adjustment, and function.

 

[audidudi]

First... Welcome.



Second... don't just adjust the oil pump !!! You can burn up the engine !!!! Basically, there is a mark on the pump, and that's the "Leanest" point. From there... either way is MORE OIL. So... a random adjustment, can feed you more oil at idle, and then starve the engine of oil at higher RPM's.

If your idle RPM is OK... then adjust the rod length so the scribed line on the pump arm, is in line with the line on the pump body.

.

The manual shows two marks, is "b" the leanest? If I understand you correctly, the link rod should always be at the marked line, even if the mixture seems too rich, but I should be looking a the TPS or other areas?

Thanks for your help. I have read-up on TPS adjustments and that seems like a likely cause for this problem.

Dean

 

[Dr Honda]

Even though they show 2 marks... You set it to the mark shown.

Yes... Check the TPS output.

 

[audidudi]

I checked the TPS output and it was a little low so I adjusted it to within the range specified in the manual. I also replaced the engine head temperature sensor. Neither of those had any affect on the amount of smoke.

I did change out the spark plugs and the smoke amount reduced significantly right after they were changed out. After a few minutes at low speed or idle the smoke came back.

Also, when full throttle is applied after idling for a while, it lags slightly then takes off. If i go from WOT to idle then back to WOT there is no lag. It seems like the oil fuel mixure is wrong at idle but correct at higher RPM. Recap, the following are new or verified working:

New plugs
New Engine head temp sensor
Adjusted RPS
Correct mark on oil injection

What remains after these have been eliminated? EFI settings or changes?

Thanks

 

[Dr Honda]

Smoke isn't always from oil. AND... since it's a 2-stroke... there isn't any way to completely get rid of it.

BUT... since you say that you have a bog after a long idle... I would be suspect of low compression, or your fuel injectors may be leaking. (but that's not very common)

Start with a compression check, and let us know what you have.

 

[01_Doo185]

I'm having he exact same problem with my utopia 185 240 i did everything audidudi did to the same effect. I tested the voltage output from the tps and when the fuel pump was priming the system and when it was running the output read 405 mV but if the engine was off and the key in the on position the output was 248 mV which is within specs. i disconnected the water temp sensor and the air temp sensor but still the same thing. I'm wondering if this is a faulty tps or if it is some other component that is bad.

 

[Coastiejoe]

I have NO IDEA if this is the case, just throwing it out there as I have read of a few broken oil cables. Again, I do not even know if the boats use said cable...

Once the cable breaks it defaults to wide open to protect the engine, is there something like this on the boats that acts the same way ???

 

[Dr Honda]

Well... the OP never got back to us on it. Basically... the engine is loading up from some reason.


OK... I just had a DUH moment. The 210 is a carb engine. I'm starting to think that the auto choke is leaking. You may want to check the enriching unit.

I have NO IDEA if this is the case, just throwing it out there as I have read of a few broken oil cables. Again, I do not even know if the boats use said cable...

Once the cable breaks it defaults to wide open to protect the engine, is there something like this on the boats that acts the same way ???

That's a good thought. But on the Merc engines... it's a solid rod, with ball ends. I guess it could have popped off... but it's the same ball ends as the PWC carbs use... and I can't ever remember hearing of one that was so warn that it came apart on it's own. (although it could happen)

 

[Coastiejoe]

Well... the OP never got back to us on it. Basically... the engine is loading up from some reason.


OK... I just had a DUH moment. The 210 is a carb engine. I'm starting to think that the auto choke is leaking. You may want to check the enriching unit.




That's a good thought. But on the Merc engines... it's a solid rod, with ball ends. I guess it could have popped off... but it's the same ball ends as the PWC carbs use... and I can't ever remember hearing of one that was so warn that it came apart on it's own. (although it could happen)

This is why I was throwing.. LOL

I figured it had SOMETHING that acted the same way but had ZERO idea of what it is..

 

[oliverfeibel]

I have the 2002 Chellenger with a 240Hp. I found that if i use anything other than Quicksilver Premium PLUS I get a lot more smoke. I found this out when I accidentally bought just the Premium and noticed a lot more smoke. I switched back to the Premium PLUS and the amount of smoke was noticably less.

 

[Dr Honda]

I have the 2002 Chellenger with a 240Hp. I found that if i use anything other than Quicksilver Premium PLUS I get a lot more smoke. I found this out when I accidentally bought just the Premium and noticed a lot more smoke. I switched back to the Premium PLUS and the amount of smoke was noticably less.

Sure... different oils will cause a different amount of smoke.


Since these are 2-strokes... they do smoke... and from the OP's title... it's a subjective wording. Sure... it's "Excessive smoke" compared to a 4-stroke engine that should have zero smoke... but is what he's seeing normal for a Merc 2-stroke?


I think next time I take my boat out... I'm going to take a vid of the smoke I get. AND... without a doubt... the Merc engines make smoke at low RPM's. (FYI I'm using Penzoil XLF)

 

[audidudi]

Smoke isn't always from oil. AND... since it's a 2-stroke... there isn't any way to completely get rid of it.

BUT... since you say that you have a bog after a long idle... I would be suspect of low compression, or your fuel injectors may be leaking. (but that's not very common)

Start with a compression check, and let us know what you have.

Sorry for the long wait... been traveling and had to find time to take the boat out of the water to run some more test. Bellow is the result of the engine compression test:

Port top to bottom
119
120
120

Starboard top to bottom
114
114
119

Starboard seems a little lower but it doesn't seem to be significantly lower than the suggested 120-125. The engine wasn't warm so not sure how that would affect the numbers.

I ran one of the suggested tests where you run the engine at 2000-2500 rpm then unplug spark plugs one at a time, noting which one affected the RPM. I found that a few unplugged plugs had no affect on RPM. Which means that there is something potentially wrong with the ignition.

 

[Dr Honda]

Well......



The plug pull test isn't a great way of doing things. Check them one at a time, with a tester. Also... it could damage the CDI.


BUT... your compression numbers are on the low side, and that could cause the smoke, and the "loading up" where it won't accelerate smoothly. But, before we jump to any conclusions... make sure your compression gauge is OK.

 

[audidudi]

Well......

BUT... your compression numbers are on the low side, and that could cause the smoke, and the "loading up" where it won't accelerate smoothly. But, before we jump to any conclusions... make sure your compression gauge is OK.

I will try and post a link to a video of the boat smoking excessively at idle. You will be able to judge if it is excessive or not (its difficult to judge something so relative via text).

After the spark plug test from last night I did the suggested Injector Electrical Harness Test.

The 3 pairs of injectors are supposed to test at 1.1 +- .2 on an ohmmeter, if its 2.2 +_ .2 then the injector does not have a complete circuit perform induction manifold disassembly and inspection following.

All 3 pairs tested at 2.0 - 2.1. That seems a little odd that all of them showed an incomplete circuit. I dread having to disassemble the induction manifold.

Also, how do you test the plugs with a tester?

 

[audidudi]

here is a video of the smoke:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewAHyCaXRLU

There was a slight hesitation before the start due to a diagnostic I just ran.

 

[audidudi]

sorry for the barrage of posts:

I tried to schedule a local marina to do some work on this and the mechanic on the line said that this engine injects fuel and oil separately. Is that correct? I thought it mixed the oil and fuel then injected it.

 

[Dr Honda]

......

I tried to schedule a local marina to do some work on this and the mechanic on the line said that this engine injects fuel and oil separately. Is that correct? I thought it mixed the oil and fuel then injected it.

Not really. On the 240 EFI engine... there is an oil pump, and it puts oil, directly in to the vapor separator. That mixes with the fuel at the high pressure pump... and the "Mix" is injected though the fuel injectors, and into the engine. So... it sounds to me, like the mechanic doesn't know that engine very well.


As far as the smoke in your vid... unfortunately... it's useless. Unless the engine is up to temp... and there is a load on it (that means in the water) you can't judge. If I started my Islandia on the trailer... it would smoke that bad too.



I would say your injectors are working fine. Your test is saying that they are "Open". If that was the case... then they wouldn't supply any fuel.



Did you test the port side temp sender? Did you test the TPS?? Did you re-align the oil pump marks??

 

[audidudi]

As far as the smoke in your vid... unfortunately... it's useless. Unless the engine is up to temp... and there is a load on it (that means in the water) you can't judge. If I started my Islandia on the trailer... it would smoke that bad too.

I would say your injectors are working fine. Your test is saying that they are "Open". If that was the case... then they wouldn't supply any fuel.

I see your train of thought. The manual says a reading of 2.1 on the ohmmeter means that one of the two injectors on that relay is not completing a circuit. All three read the same, which would mean that 3 of the 6 cylinders injectors will not respond to EFI. The boat did reach 50 MPH at WOT so it seems very unlikely that the injectors are simply not working.

Did you test the port side temp sender? Did you test the TPS?? Did you re-align the oil pump marks??

I tried taking this boat to the mechanic and their computers wont hookup to an engine this old. So they will pass it onto their merc expert. Very frustrating. The service manager actually told me that boat repairs for me "a new customer" takes back seat to their long standing customers. All this after they told me that is a first come first serve basis.

I did test and adjust the TPS. I also re-aligned the oil pump mark and I replaced the engine head temp sensor.

The manual shows a method to test how much oil is being injected into the system by bypassing the built in fuel mix components and hooking up a 50:1 gas tank. Then divert the oil pump output into a container and compare the flow to what the manual suggests. This should prove if the system is injecting too much oil or if its an injector or ignition issue.

 

[Dr Honda]

I tried taking this boat to the mechanic and their computers wont hookup to an engine this old.

That's a bunch of BS. You have the same Cummins computer I have. Mercury used that computer from the late 80's, up until they released the "SmartCraft" computers in 2001-1/2. Also... it was used in the Mercury racing engines. SO... there are a lot of out outboard engines with that computer on them.

If it was a "Mercury" shop... they should be able to talk to it. (unless there is an issue with the ECU)

You could check the output of the pump. It kind of sounds like it's the last thing to check. But with that said... if you put a small tank with 50:1 in it... and go for a ride... and the smoke is the same... then you will know if what you are seeing is normal.



I guess there is a possibility that the injectors are leaking a little, and at idle (and low RPM's) there is just a little extra fuel.

 

[audidudi]

Found a few things

After allot of work I thought it would be good to try some injector cleaner. I got a gallon of Seafoam and put some in the fuel filter (to get to the engine quick) and in the gas tank. It made a significant difference in the amount of smoke. I then double checked a few additional items.

Oil Pump - I found the link rod to the oil pump was connected to arm on the wrong side of the lever. I was looking at the wrong marks to align the pump. It was that way when i purchased it. This means that when throttle was applied and the link rod pushed up on the oil pump it rotated that arm counter clockwise, when i disconnected the rod and moved the arm to the correct mark it was 180 degrees rotated from where it was originally. So when throttle is applied now it rotates the arm clockwise.
This helped with the smoking as it is properly injecting oil now. But smoke is not all the way gone.

Before i found the oil pump problem i was adjusting a few other items, engine timing, engine idle, TPS sensor, etc.... Now that it is working with correct oil mixture, i am going to go back and readjust the other items again to get it running a little smoother.

Dr Honda, thanks for your help.

 

[Dr Honda]

If you had the arm 180 degrees out... yes... it's going to smoke, since that will be "Full oil" The real question is... did it go "Lean oil" in the upper RPM's?? (That could be why the compression is low)