Tony, Need your help... Took the boat out today... shes been running great all season. Got 500 yrds from the dock after launching and she cut out. Tried restarting a few times and it would start for 1-2 secs. then cut out. now she wont fire at all. Turns over fine, and she sounds like she wants to start but something is preventing it. Looking for some help on where to start troubleshooting. im sure theres already a thread that addresses this, but im tired of searching.
2000 islandia 240 EFI stall at low RPM and no start
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Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Sorry for the late reply, but I was at a Motorcycle rally yesterday.
Anyway... something very simple... did you run the bilge fan? My boat doesn't like to start or run without it.
Other than that... it will take a full list of things to check. We need fuel, spark, and compression.
Start with fuel. 1) Is there fuel at the vapor tank? 2) Is there pressure in the high pressure rail?
If that passes... then look at spark on all plugs.
If you have good spark... then there could be something mechanical. (like a melted piston)
Anyway... something very simple... did you run the bilge fan? My boat doesn't like to start or run without it.
Other than that... it will take a full list of things to check. We need fuel, spark, and compression.
Start with fuel. 1) Is there fuel at the vapor tank? 2) Is there pressure in the high pressure rail?
If that passes... then look at spark on all plugs.
If you have good spark... then there could be something mechanical. (like a melted piston)
Ok so, heres where i'm at...
starting with compression. compression test yielded 100psi on 6 of 8 cylinders. cylinders 7-8 dont exist so i wont spend any more time on them.
with key in on position, i can hear the fuel pump ticking, and when i push on the schrader valve, gas shoots like a fire hose. now my wife wont let me touch her cause i stink.
plugs all look clean and i have spark on all 6 cylinders but whos to say its good spark?
couple questions. 1) how many spark pulses should i expect to see per second on any given cylinder?
2)how many damn fuel pumps are on this thing?
3) if i have pressure at the schrader valve when cranking, is it safe to assume that all fuel pumps are working?
4) EFI... just cause I have pressure doesnt mean that i am injecting yes? where is the last spot in the fuel delivery system that i can check for pressure?
5)WTF?!
starting with compression. compression test yielded 100psi on 6 of 8 cylinders. cylinders 7-8 dont exist so i wont spend any more time on them.
with key in on position, i can hear the fuel pump ticking, and when i push on the schrader valve, gas shoots like a fire hose. now my wife wont let me touch her cause i stink.
plugs all look clean and i have spark on all 6 cylinders but whos to say its good spark?
couple questions. 1) how many spark pulses should i expect to see per second on any given cylinder?
2)how many damn fuel pumps are on this thing?
3) if i have pressure at the schrader valve when cranking, is it safe to assume that all fuel pumps are working?
4) EFI... just cause I have pressure doesnt mean that i am injecting yes? where is the last spot in the fuel delivery system that i can check for pressure?
5)WTF?!
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
Yep... they forgot to put #7 and 8 on these engines. (LOL)
1) Depends on how fast it's spinning. But, there is only 3 triggers, so you should see 2 "Fires" per revolution.
2) There are 3 pumps. Starting at the tank end... A) There is an electric lift pump that sucks fuel from the tank to the engine. It only runs while you crank. B) The Pulse pump is mechanical, and delivers fuel to the engine while running. C) The high pressure pump in the vapor tank. It supplies the fuel rail with 36 psi.
3) For the most part... yes. But I like to get a reading while running. Just to make sure the pressure doesn't drop. But since you are starting... that's not feasible right now.
4) Right. But it's more likely that you will loose fuel pressure, before you have an injector issue. The Electronics are pretty robust. (but we need to check that next)
5) Bleep-Bloop-Blop.
A coupel thoughts.....
a) When you checked the fuel at the Schrader valve... the stream out is promising... but did you actually check the pressure? You can have flow, but low pressure.
b) 100 PSI compression is low, and not "Happy". Spec is closer to 135, and these engine seem to run fine at 120. Since they are all the same, I would be inclined to think the gauge is bad (or crappy) but we may need to investigate that more.
c) I would pop the flywheel off, and take a look under, just to make sure none of the wires are shorted.
1) Depends on how fast it's spinning. But, there is only 3 triggers, so you should see 2 "Fires" per revolution.
2) There are 3 pumps. Starting at the tank end... A) There is an electric lift pump that sucks fuel from the tank to the engine. It only runs while you crank. B) The Pulse pump is mechanical, and delivers fuel to the engine while running. C) The high pressure pump in the vapor tank. It supplies the fuel rail with 36 psi.
3) For the most part... yes. But I like to get a reading while running. Just to make sure the pressure doesn't drop. But since you are starting... that's not feasible right now.
4) Right. But it's more likely that you will loose fuel pressure, before you have an injector issue. The Electronics are pretty robust. (but we need to check that next)
5) Bleep-Bloop-Blop.
A coupel thoughts.....
a) When you checked the fuel at the Schrader valve... the stream out is promising... but did you actually check the pressure? You can have flow, but low pressure.
b) 100 PSI compression is low, and not "Happy". Spec is closer to 135, and these engine seem to run fine at 120. Since they are all the same, I would be inclined to think the gauge is bad (or crappy) but we may need to investigate that more.
c) I would pop the flywheel off, and take a look under, just to make sure none of the wires are shorted.
So turns out I was correct in being suspicious of my spark... Found out I don't really have spark... Kinda intermittent... As soon as I disconnect that black and yellow wire on top of the engine, it fires right up and runs as long as I want... So I'm guessing it's grounding out somewhere... Just difficult to know where. I first suspected the start switch as it was kinda wore out to begin with, but replaced it and same condition... Electrical troubleshooting is a bitch... Any ideas? Where does that black and yellow wire go? It seems it's just a part of the kill circuit...
Got it!!! So I left something out... The boat originally died when I hit a cross wake, but I thought it was a coincidence... Digging deeper I found this green wore wasn't making good contact... (See attached pics) fires right up... Good to go! Heading out now, I need a drink!
IMG_6846.JPG
IMG_6846.JPG
Damnit! So that wasnt the issue, turns out the condition still exists. Lets start over, because I have this thing down to an electrical problem for sure...
2000 Merc 240 EFI
1) Boat cranks, but wont start.
2) No spark.
3) Disconnect Black and yellow wire at the top of the CDI columns and boat immediately fires and runs perfect.
Based on another post: (http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?39543-Merc-240-EFI-won-t-start-no-spark-at-the-plugs) I went to these:
1) Keyswitch - Looked a little ratty, so I replaced it.
2) Killswitch - Checked continuity, verified working.
3) RPM limiter (on engine) - This ones tough, how do you know if this is working?
4) "Throttle Guardian" (black box behind steering column) - Same thing, how do you know if its working as expected?
Let me tell you a little more about what I've troubleshot...
1) With Blk/Yel disconnected at the bullet connector on top of the engine, continuity check passes on all six CDI connectors. This tells me the CDI wiring harness itself is good.
2) As soon as I reconnect the Blk/Yel, the engine dies (like a kill circuit).
3) I've also found that my swearing has gotten worse.
4) I'm drinking more heavily than normal.
5) Help.
2000 Merc 240 EFI
1) Boat cranks, but wont start.
2) No spark.
3) Disconnect Black and yellow wire at the top of the CDI columns and boat immediately fires and runs perfect.
Based on another post: (http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?39543-Merc-240-EFI-won-t-start-no-spark-at-the-plugs) I went to these:
1) Keyswitch - Looked a little ratty, so I replaced it.
2) Killswitch - Checked continuity, verified working.
3) RPM limiter (on engine) - This ones tough, how do you know if this is working?
4) "Throttle Guardian" (black box behind steering column) - Same thing, how do you know if its working as expected?
Let me tell you a little more about what I've troubleshot...
1) With Blk/Yel disconnected at the bullet connector on top of the engine, continuity check passes on all six CDI connectors. This tells me the CDI wiring harness itself is good.
2) As soon as I reconnect the Blk/Yel, the engine dies (like a kill circuit).
3) I've also found that my swearing has gotten worse.
4) I'm drinking more heavily than normal.
5) Help.
philipmurphey
Member
4) "Throttle Guardian" (black box behind steering column) - Same thing, how do you know if its working as expected? Just disconnect it by cutting the wires and see if problem goes away.
Son of a...! So I cut the dark blue/yell wire only, on the throttle guardian and boat starts and runs great... Took it out for a spin and performs wonderfully with no issue... Throttle guardian is the problem for sure, ordered a new one...
Only issue it that now I have no tach... At least until the new guardian comes...
Only issue it that now I have no tach... At least until the new guardian comes...
Dr Honda
Well-Known Member
NO!!!!!!!!
Just toss it in the trash. You really don't need a new one. The tach should get it's signal from the engine and work fine.
islandia-duane
Member
I don't see a throttle guardian in my 2000 islandia. Has mine been already removed.
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