2-stroke engines air and water pollution

[SaltyBones]

If you are a lone rider however, I could understand.

But my ski gulps gas by the bucket, how is the Spark doing? How long can you ride on one tank if you do not use it always at WOT?

Benji.

I would have to agree the spark is not built for 3 riders, as it is a small, nimble, get back to the old days kind of fun ski. I bought 2 2UPs and likely rarely/never have more than 1 rider on each as I tend to gravitate to a session of wave jumping each time out even if it is on the way to/from the sandbar lol btw...I really like the GTI models as they are very stable and reliable (the latter of is highly important to me).

As far fuel efficiency is concerned, I'm still in the break-in phase. So, my numbers are likely off some, but in just over 2 hours of ride time I burned just under 1/2 tank (8 gallon tank) and logged ~30-35 miles w/a couple of those playing in the waves. All in all, it's just a fun little machine that hopefully proves to be reliable as well lol

 

[mikidymac]

I think you all need to do more research on this topic...

The Tahoe ban on carbed 2-strokes was by the Tahoe Regional Planning Agency and not the EPA and had no scientific basis. BTW, this was in 2001.

In addition the ban on carbed 2-strokes on lake Mead in 2012 was a joke and only targeted PWC's and not all carbed 2-strokes like outboards. They went for a total ban but received such opposition from fishermen and the outboard engine industry they agreed to allow them and only ban carbed 2-stroke PWC's.

In addition after the ban it was determined that it was based on bad science. The small numbers of the banned PWC's contribute almost nothing in the way of pollution as a whole when you factor in all sources of pollution from all other vessels and sources.

Additional studies have also found that any oil pollution from carbed 2-strokes when measured and studied diminishes to trace levels within hours so there is little to no environmental impact from them.

Basically the bans exist because we do not yell loud enough not because there is and actual environmental impact.

 

[benjilafouine]

So this looks more like a grudge against 2-stroke PWCs and their drivers than actual facts. I never felt I was polluting my lake with mine (but don't spill gas or oil...). My place is a place for the rich (maybe not me that much...) because you can't get a decent house and land here below 300,000.00$ but I got lucky: my father sold it to me for less than half price (but it needed some serious fixing). To top it, if you are not resident, your are getting hit with a 150.00$ fee to get your boat in the water for one week... There are camping passes but again, the number of camping places is very limited and spots are rented at high price. As I said, Lake Simon waters are pristine: you can see the bottom at more than 15-20 feet deep.

To make a long story short, most of the people riding PWCs here are not the youngest so there is not grudge against PWCs here (lots of grey hair on PWCs here... but not me, I am almost bald!!!!).

Benji.

 

[mc06]

So this looks more like a grudge against 2-stroke PWCs and their drivers than actual facts. I never felt I was polluting my lake with mine (but don't spill gas or oil...). My place is a place for the rich (maybe not me that much...) because you can't get a decent house and land here below 300,000.00$ but I got lucky: my father sold it to me for less than half price (but it needed some serious fixing). To top it, if you are not resident, your are getting hit with a 150.00$ fee to get your boat in the water for one week... There are camping passes but again, the number of camping places is very limited and spots are rented at high price. As I said, Lake Simon waters are pristine: you can see the bottom at more than 15-20 feet deep.

To make a long story short, most of the people riding PWCs here are not the youngest so there is not grudge against PWCs here (lots of grey hair on PWCs here... but not me, I am almost bald!!!!).

Benji.

Exactly, You need to understand the mentality of the "Powers that be" that control Lake Tahoe (TRPA). Their motto, "a voice for Tahoe". The actual motto, if you don't like it go to another lake!. I have dealt with them while building there. very snobby and really do not care about the common folk.
Worth noting that the TRPA does not reflect a majority of the people living there, which are a great bunch of people.
Speaking of house prices, all lake front houses are over a million with properties routinely getting into the 15-20 million range plus. I've been in 2 houses over 50! Crazy.

 

[benjilafouine]

We have a few million dollars home here too but mostly, it plays between 300K and 700K. Not everyone wants to live in a place that is frozen over half the time per year... unless you are a snowmobile lover... Actually, we are getting our first snow flakes today (wet snow) and first important freeze tonight...

Benji.

 

[LouDoo]

When I made my original comment I was looking at the practical aspects. I have nothing against 2-strokes, I have two of them, and love both skis. But the fact is Seadoo hasn't manufactured a 2-stroke in the last 12 years, my ski's are 20 years old. When I buy my next ski I will be looking for a newer ski because I want reliability, I do enjoy working on my ski's but I like riding them more.

Lou

 

[Mickirig1]

We just put fuel in ours and ride them. They get low and my kids go get 5 gallon jugs of gas. Toys have costs, if it mattered that much you would not have water toys. It's a cheap cost to pay to have all my adult children to come out and play with our toys!

 

[Spimothy Leary]

When I made my original comment I was looking at the practical aspects. I have nothing against 2-strokes, I have two of them, and love both skis. But the fact is Seadoo hasn't manufactured a 2-stroke in the last 12 years, my ski's are 20 years old. When I buy my next ski I will be looking for a newer ski because I want reliability, I do enjoy working on my ski's but I like riding them more.

Lou

I kind of felt the same way, although i've had pretty good luck on the reliability end. When I made the decision to sell my last 2 stroke I knew it was very likely i'd never go back. I've occasionally had the taste for pick up a nice x4 and just stash it for fun days but I can easily resist the urge

I absolutely love the fact that you can actually converse with people when idling, the larger fuel tanks and improved fuel economy, comfort level, the ability to handle moderate chop with zero effort. Take that in and know that pollution is also reduced and its a no brainer. Fun factor is reduced but if that's important, then get a spark. In Florida here we're already starting to see 3K-4K as somewhat commonplace for older 4 strokes, 4K-6K goes a lot further than before as well. Over the next couple of years the 2 stroke's will continue to get pushed down underneath sliding prices on 4 stroke 10 yr old models.

I kind of see a gap where the SD 155 and Yamaha M1 models are establishing a lower baseline, where the SC 185/215's and the HO's are slowly catching up. The SD 255+ and Yami 1.8's are still holding higher but there will be a lot of RXP/T's and FXSHO's coming down the pike over the next few years that will be hard to pass up.

The 717 and up platforms will still be viable for a long time, but are being gradually phased out as we speak. For every 3 being parted out only one is being restored (opinion not fact)

I always thought it was somewhat pointless to attack 2 strokes when its a known fact that they are phasing themselves out already.

 

[benjilafouine]

I hope my GTI will give me two to three good seasons (after all the money I spent on it and all that ordeal) and after that, RIP 2-stroke. Moving on.

Benji

 

[LouDoo]

I kind of felt the same way, although i've had pretty good luck on the reliability end. When I made the decision to sell my last 2 stroke I knew it was very likely i'd never go back. I've occasionally had the taste for pick up a nice x4 and just stash it for fun days but I can easily resist the urge

I absolutely love the fact that you can actually converse with people when idling, the larger fuel tanks and improved fuel economy, comfort level, the ability to handle moderate chop with zero effort. Take that in and know that pollution is also reduced and its a no brainer. Fun factor is reduced but if that's important, then get a spark. In Florida here we're already starting to see 3K-4K as somewhat commonplace for older 4 strokes, 4K-6K goes a lot further than before as well. Over the next couple of years the 2 stroke's will continue to get pushed down underneath sliding prices on 4 stroke 10 yr old models.

I kind of see a gap where the SD 155 and Yamaha M1 models are establishing a lower baseline, where the SC 185/215's and the HO's are slowly catching up. The SD 255+ and Yami 1.8's are still holding higher but there will be a lot of RXP/T's and FXSHO's coming down the pike over the next few years that will be hard to pass up.

The 717 and up platforms will still be viable for a long time, but are being gradually phased out as we speak. For every 3 being parted out only one is being restored (opinion not fact)

I always thought it was somewhat pointless to attack 2 strokes when its a known fact that they are phasing themselves out already.

Tim, I have the same feeling. I'll probably keep my 96GSX (it has less than 100 hours on the original engine), just for the fun of it. But my next ski will be a 4-stroke for practical reasons.

Lou

 

[Mickirig1]

My 2 GTI 2000's have low hours when we bought them. One was 50 hrs and the other 60 hrs. Very low for all the years they have been in service. I take care of them as best I can. The best OIL goes in them, all old lines and stuff have been replaced. Father Time will not win with these Ski's! The EPA ignores our area of Ohio at least 2 strokes!

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I'll tow my 2 stroke skis with my Model X soon enough... (Tows 5k)

How's that for saving the planet

 

[howie099]

I am rebuilding the engines in my 1998 1800 Sportster this year to me that means I am going to be driving it for many more years to come. When the 4-stokes comes down in price I will buy them but 13K-17K for one is just crazy. For my 3-4 months out of the year the cheap 2-stokes do the job for me. This is the same situation choosing a hybrid car or a gas model model car. Both do the same thing one is supposed to be better for environment but cost 50% more that standard one. 5 year ownership the gas car is still cheaper to own and maintain. Now put this in a PCW late 90's-early 2000"s 2-Stoke model even doing an average of 2K and most 4-stokes 4tecs early/mid 2000's 4-5K average. Which one is the better deal? Both will need some work since 80% people don't do crap to their water toys until they break. So what is the better deal and cost of ownership? Remember engines are double to buy in 4 tecs and require a scanner most of the time and supercharges run like $500 to rebuild.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Don't get me started on Hybrids... I hate those things!

As for the skis, I'll go 4-stroke when I find a ski that's FUN to ride. a RXP-X is fast as all hell, but my XP is FUN.
I don't ride to take a turn at 100 MPH and slide across a finish line first. I ride to jump, spin, twist, flip.... you know, FUN.

With the Volkswagen Diesel-Gate going on, I think a lot more crap comes from cars driven every day than some skis used on weekends in the summer...

 

[Spimothy Leary]

Don't get me started on Hybrids... I hate those things!

As for the skis, I'll go 4-stroke when I find a ski that's FUN to ride. a RXP-X is fast as all hell, but my XP is FUN.
I don't ride to take a turn at 100 MPH and slide across a finish line first. I ride to jump, spin, twist, flip.... you know, FUN.

With the Volkswagen Diesel-Gate going on, I think a lot more crap comes from cars driven every day than some skis used on weekends in the summer...

I honestly think the rxp, rxpx fit the bill as far as fun models, the people I know that ride them can twist them around pretty quick and easy, and the s3 models are even better, I ride with two guys that have s3 Px Models and they toss them around like an xp...

now my 08 T-X is a whole different ball game, fast as hell in a straight line but the turn radius is easily 30 feet, which IMO is absolutely unacceptable the fun factor is gone. I'm actually discussing my complaints over on the hulk right now looking for bolt on's to improve that situation, if not, i'm selling the ski. My confidence level in a bolt on fix is pretty low so FWIW I've already taken my CL pictures and i'm ready to make a listing for it.

I'm just hesitant to sell it "now" with our Georgia ride in coming up in 3 weeks. Basically told the wife that if I sell it before the Georgia trip i'll be getting top dollar, because i'm not going to take low offers a week before a planned trip.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

I rode a RXT-X... it steers like a school bus.... lol

 

[benjilafouine]

I only tried the 4-tec for 20 minutes and did not test sharp turns and spins. Are you telling me that these monsters (like 900 pounds) can't turn and spin like a 2-stroke? I saw a guy this year with a brand new Yamaha and it seems pretty impressive. Using his trim, he could almost "dive" under water.

This is more in line with my new thread for this week but we are still in the subject indirectly.

Benji.

 

[Mickirig1]

Depends on the rider too. Skill level and willing to take a risk. Some of them don't want to go swimming if they make a wrong move. My Wife rides like grandma. I circle her all the time. Never seen her jump a wake or swell.