1998 Sportster 85HP - expert help desperately needed

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shawnmail

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Hey all - I think I'm in a world or trouble!

Boat is a 98 85HP single sportster.

Last year before packing up the boat I had all sorts of trouble getting it to plane; felt like the propeller was slipping and it would simply "spin out". After doing some reading I figured it must be the impeller / wear ring. After waiting two months here in Alberta (and all sorts of excuses from the dealer) - I was off to the lake $1100 dollars poorer :mad:

Got it in the water with much excitement and let it warm up for a few before giving her some throttle - and nothing improved; infact, it seemed worse. After a few minutes of feathering the throttle I couldn't even get it up (lol) to plane as before. Frustrated I revved her up high for a couple seconds - when she suddenly bogged out and died.

Worried I might be paddling back to shore I put her in neutral and throttled right down - started and purred like a kitten. Popped open the rear access and looked inside to see water spraying from a number of places...:mad:

1.jpg


I apologize for the artwork :p I noticed that two of the exhaust header (red arrow) have sheared off - and a ton of water was spraying out there; I had a pinhole leak squirting off the small black plastic line on the exhaust (green arrow) ; have what looks to be a missing bolt - or perhaps nothing (purple arrow) and could see water ebbing in on the hull around the driveshaft (blue arrow).

Needless to say I'm fairly frustrated at this point - I do have some mechanical skill and knowledge but seadoo boat functions are pretty foreign to me - hence paying all that cash for the new impeller and ring @ the dealer.

I guess I am looking for two things as I didnt notice these before -

1) Could the driveshaft leak been caused by the mechanic changing the impeller and wear ring?
2) What the **** should I do about the exhaust? Could this be the problem causing the slipping; Where should I start looking?

I cant afford to spend anymore cash on the boat and with the summer almost over here in Alberta I have a couple very dissapointed little boys that were looking for some summer fun. Any help and suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

Shawn
 
Wow... I would go back to the dealer, and kick him in the nutz. It sounds like they changed parts that you didn't even need. (that's why I hate most of them)


Bad cavitation almost never comes from the pump. (impeller/ring) It's normally from an air leak. And... that's normally from the carbon seal. replace the seal, boot, and the 2 O-rings in the stainless ring.


Now... as far as your Q's...

1) Yes... but there's no way to prove it. But... it was probably your original issue.

2) You need to fix it. Pull the pipe... and replace all the hardware, and gasket. I'm sure once the pipe is off, you can get the broken bolts/studs out. DO NOT try to re-use any of the hardware. It will cause issues.

2a) No... water leaks in your cooling system won't cause cavitation.
 
So a couple more questions -
I remember finding a diagram on the forums earlier but cant for the life of me now; does anyone have a link to the diagram and the parts numbers? Does replacing these require complete disassembly of the drive system from outside the rear of the boat?

As far as the exhaust goes - what would cause them to sheer off? I have tried rocking the motor to see if it could be a motor mount issue but can t move it for the life of me so that seems good?

Thanks again guys... might have light at the end of the tunnel yet..

Shawn
 
The parts tab at the top of the page will get you to all your part numbers.


The exhaust bolts broke, probably because they were too tight. They only get tightened to 17 Lb/ft of torque. People try to make them too tight, and when the exhaust gets hot... it expands, and either the bolts break... or they stretch. Then when it cools... they are loose, and fall out. That's why you don't want to re-use the old bolts. They are probably over stretched already.
 
Well I pulled the shroud off and snapped a pic - when comparing it to the parts diagram it almost looks as if I am missing parts (oring groove) and the seal carrier ring is too far back? Definately the carbon ring as a problem too - as you can see it is worn into an egg shape and simply pulled away (wedged a scredriver in it for the pic). So should the seal carrier ring not be closer? I assume the bulge in the rubber boot is because it is packed with grease?

Im assuming as per my previous post this is going to involve removing the pump etc from the rear to get to the seal?

How do you guys work on these? I look like a fool with my legs flailing around in the air and balancing on my stomach.. :)
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[QUOTE

How do you guys work on these? I look like a fool with my legs flailing around in the air and balancing on my stomach.. :)
/QUOTE]

Then you are doing it right. ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
 
I'm not trying to be critical here, but if it were my boat the first thing I would do is go buy a gallon of Super Clean and clean the motor and bilge, not only will it be more pleasant to work on but it will also be easier to find problems.

Lou
 
Super clean..... Yep


Feet in the air.... Normal.


Carbon seal... Now ruined since you stuck the screwdriver in it. The rubber boot simply puts pressure on it, and holds it to the stainless ring. (that's it) But since you put the screwdriver in it... you will have nicked the seal.


The bulge in the rubber boot from the PTO to the drive shaft is there because it's OVER FILLED !!! it it rips, it's going to make a mess. Don't put anymore in it. (lol)



At this point... I would replace the carbon ring, boot, and the 2 O-rings in the stainless ring. That should solve the cavitation issues.
 
Yes you are going to need to remove the pump to do the job. Id recommend a new neoprene seal in between the pump and the hull as well, even if it was just done at the dealer. Its a shame you aren't closer to me, I could get you back on your feet in no time.
 
Hey guys-

Thanks for all the in sight; I'm feeling more confident by the minute.

I only used the screwdriver to hold it open for the shot - not to pry it back. It was loose and sloppy without any pressure whatsoever; seemed to be worn oval shaped on the inside.

As far as the rubber boot bulge - this is how I got the boat; should I consider backing off the nipple and relieving some of the grease pressure? :p

Looking at the invoice - no mention of a neoprene seal. I'm wondering if they reused the one on there somehow - adding to my water problem. Wish the lake was closer so I could pop it in the water. I read somewhere that you can fill the bilge and check for leaks from the outside?

Thanks for all the input - considering joining to grab the service manual if I cant find it elsewhere. :)
 
shawnmail said:
Dr Honda - Assuming you mean #5? Thinking I might bring this up with the dealer since its not on the invoice...
http://fiche.seadoowarehouse.com/se...=174&b=14&c=0&d=-PROPULSION-SYSTEM---INTERNAL
Click to expand...

Well..... OMC0922 mentioned replacing that seal. But yes... that's the neoprene seal... and it must be changed like any other gasket when the pump is removed. Since it's soft... if you JUST replaced it... then it can be reused. But generally... if it's been a while, it gets hard, and wont' re-seal.

If the shop didn't put in a new one... then that makes my original comment (in post #2) even stronger.


I know you commented about the carbon seal twice... "It was loose and sloppy without any pressure whatsoever; seemed to be worn oval shaped on the inside."

The seal is bigger than the drive shaft... and is relatively easy to push around, or pull back. The rubber boot is the "Spring" for the system. The actual seal is the pressure of the face of the carbon sea (where the screwdriver is) to the face of the stainless ring. The reason you get cavitation fro the seal is either a crack/nick... and air can get sucked past. OR... if it's warn, and the boot doesn't have enough pressure... then the suction of the pump can pull it back under acceleration.


Generally air will get past the seal easier than water coming back in... so you will get cavitation before you have a issue with the boat trying to sink. (that's why they use this type of seal)
 
Well I managed to find a copy of the service manual online; with the number of "special tools" it lists just to get to the driveshaft I'm once again intimidated. :p Dont make it simple do they? Honestly debating taking it back to the lake today and plopping it in just to see where it leaks (to begin).

This super clean - product is made by who? Wondering if we have it in Canada?

I really dont have faith in the local dealer anymore as I asked them to give the boat the once - over before handing it back; obviously they did not. Trying to weigh my options here. Am going to replace the exhaust studs today myself and see how that makes a difference.

Shawn
 
Don't run it with the known leaks. An overheated engine can shortly be a dead engine. Fix what you know about... and then, go look for more issues.


Super Clean use to be made by Castrol. But... now it may be it's own thing. (Castrol isn't on the label anymore) But... in the states... you can find it at any auto parts store, or even walmart has it. Below is a before and after. That's NO scrubbing. Just spry it on, full power... let it sit for a couple min... and hose it out.


I went back and looked at your pictures... and your carbon ring is dead. Normally, there is a small bevel on the outer edge. Yours is gone. Also... it's about 8 to 10 mm thick. yous looks to be warn down to around 4~5mm. It needs replaced.


348.jpg


349.jpg
 
What's going on with your hull where the prop shaft goes through ? Looks like it is badly cracked and somebody has stuffed some kind of black sealer in there ? Sure this isnt leaking ?
 
You can get super clean at Canadian Tire. Awesome stuff.

Not sure what special tools you would need to change the ring, other than a torque wrench?
 
Britrick said:
What's going on with your hull where the prop shaft goes through ? Looks like it is badly cracked and somebody has stuffed some kind of black sealer in there ? Sure this isnt leaking ?
Click to expand...

I was wondering about that - but it seams firm and nothing really "stuffed" in there.. Will go take another look now.
 
I use a step ladder on the side of the boat sometimes also to access the engines. It better than handing upside down.
 
Along with new hardware, make sure to use the correct torque and locktite as per the service manual when tightening the exhaust manifold dasteners, and new gaskets, of course. Otherwise it's likely to leak.

That hardware is stainless steel on mine.
 
that might be where the factory had intentions to install a weedless system, is there a handle below the steering wheel on the left under the dash?

Take knife cut o ring out push in half moon clip, the o ring has been superceded. loose as it is, do not sweet the carbon seal< screwdriver incident> check for tension after install per book, pto cover has not been mounted right.

If you need hardware I have some, just tell me what you are looking for.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well - now on to the next issue -
Got it all torn down - turns out my driveshaft is bent - and the carbon seal is badly worn / egged. My next question is my local dealer cannot get a driveshaft for it - he suggested part number 204120064 - not listed on seadoo warehouse - but listed on SBT. Problem being is that on SBT my 98 Sportster (single 85 HP) isnt listed on the boats the shaft fits. This the correct unit? Anybody know anywhere in canada a guy could pick this up before I import it?

http://www.shopsbt.com/jetski/74-101D-08.html

Thanks again -

Shawn
 
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