1996 xp 800 first water test help!!

[Axkiker]

Finally got the XP to a ramp where I could water test for leaks etc. No leaks at all which is great. Fired up the ski and am having trouble with it bogging at anything over idle. I can start the ski and it will idle in the water fine. However when I give it anything over roughly 1/8th throttle it boggs and starts to die.

Im guessing that the carbs are out of adjustment. Thats just my first thoughts but I figiured I would post and see what you all thought.

Just some background... Motor was just built with a new top end. New fuel lines and the carbs were dissambeled and put back together at what I think are stock specs. Engine seems to rev much better out of the water but still seems to bogg some at a high throttle.

Thoughts...

 

[Coastiejoe]

Out of water really means nothing as there is no load on the engine. It really only tells you it runs,,, which is worth something, but not much as compared to being in the water.

It does sound fuel related. However, I would remove the spark plug boots an trim the wire back 1/4 inch and put the boots back on. They thread on and off.

 

[LouDoo]

I agree it sounds like a fuel delivery issue, what is your popoff? I'm thinking is should be in the mid 20's.

Lou

 

[Axkiker]

I agree it sounds like a fuel delivery issue, what is your popoff? I'm thinking is should be in the mid 20's.

Lou

Should also add that the plugs are very wet... So I guess its needless to say its getting too much fuel.

I never checked the popoff... I reinatalled everything that was stock so I didnt think it was necessary. Guess maybe I was wrong ???

 

[KayakNFly]

What did you set the carbs to?
96 XP stock setting per manual is:
Highs: 0
Lows: 1 turn

 

[Strizzo]

You need to check things over or you end up pulling it all apart again. I found that the o rings at the needle and seat were leaking in mine. Even though all seemed ok when running other than having to run the ls needle 1/4 turn in from factory, and it would slightly flood when shut down. Even on the trailer it would have to crank a second or two if it had been run. I only really figured it out after the carbs were apart for a day or two and the o rings dried out and shrank a bit more which made things more obvious.

Check: pop off (within spec, even between carbs, and clean pop off)
Needle pressure hold with carbs together (with the carb all together it needs to hold 10psi for 30 seconds)
Low speed screw set correctly (1 turn out for accel pump carbs, 1.5 turn out w/o accel pump, generally, check your manual)

 

[Matt Braley]

I agree with all above so step 1) Open the low speed needles 1/2 turn. Step 2)(if step 1 doesen't work) pull the carbs apart again and follow the Carb Sticky by Bill 86. Old fuel will gum up the little holes in the carb body that transfer from low to high speed. You can't skip the step where you spray those clean.

 

[Axkiker]

I agree with all above so step 1) Open the low speed needles 1/2 turn. Step 2)(if step 1 doesen't work) pull the carbs apart again and follow the Carb Sticky by Bill 86. Old fuel will gum up the little holes in the carb body that transfer from low to high speed. You can't skip the step where you spray those clean.

Why do you say open the low speed 1/2 turn... arent they supposed to be a full turn as a factory setting ??? Maybe im not understanding something here

 

[Strizzo]

I'd verify the needles position, if not at 1 turn already, set them there and try again, if they are already at 1 turn, turn them in a 1/4 turn at most, the manual recommends 1/8th turn at a time when fine tuning. It sounds like you might have a leaking needle/seat/o ring causing you to run super fat on the bottom end.

 

[Robj]

It sounds like you might have a leaking needle/seat/o ring causing you to run super fat on the bottom end.

That is where I would start. See if it holds pressure, if not you know where the problem is.

 

[Axkiker]

That is where I would start. See if it holds pressure, if not you know where the problem is.

So when you say check if its leaking I assume this is like checking the pop off pressure. apply almost enough pressure to make it pop and ensure it holds.

am I thinking corrrectly.

thanks

 

[Strizzo]

Almost, the needle only has to be able to hold back the 10 psi that the fuel system can hold, the diaphragm will be pushing the lever arm to open the needle under running conditions. The pop off is just a measure of the spring pressure on the lever. To check pop off, you'll want to open the cover and remove the diaphragm so it's accurate.

 

[Axkiker]

Almost, the needle only has to be able to hold back the 10 psi that the fuel system can hold, the diaphragm will be pushing the lever arm to open the needle under running conditions. The pop off is just a measure of the spring pressure on the lever. To check pop off, you'll want to open the cover and remove the diaphragm so it's accurate.

Im gonna take it back to the ramp tonight and verify needle settings and install new plugs. If that doesnt fly I guess ill be ordering a rebuild kit.

I know you need OEM stuff. can someone suggest a company to order from fairly close to KY. I have a lake trip this coming weekend so I need them asap.

 

[Strizzo]

Sbt has always gotten stuff to me before weeks end if I order sun/mon

Edit: do yourself a favor and pull the air box off ad leave the flame arresters screen in before you go, makes adjusting the needles a lot easier, especially when you're waist deep at the ramp.

 

[Axkiker]

Okay here is my update

adjusted the carbs so im positive my low is 1 and high is 0. Cut the wires at the boot and reinstalled. Ran the ski for a short period of time in my driveway and it still has wet plugs. I didnt take it to the ramp as I figured it would still bogg.

The only thing other than a carb build I can think of is that I went too excessive when mixing the gas / oil. I wanted to make sure that during break in it had plenty of lube so I added extra oil. I dont think I added that much but who knows.. maybe you all can fill me in.

Forgot to add it runs like a top out of the water.

Can anyone think of anything else to check other than just ordering the rebuild kit.

Also if I order the kit what spring pressure should I order?

thanks

 

[Axkiker]

anyone ??????????????????

 

[dannyual767]

I doubt that you've mixed too much oil to be causing these problems. Perhaps your needles and seats may be leaking causing the wet plugs. I've bought both of my pairs of Mikuni carb kits for my '96 XPs here: http://osdparts.com/index.php?main_page=product_free_shipping_info&cPath=1&products_id=38

If you can get your order over $100, it'll all ship free. Look at the right hand side of the page.

 

[Mekanix]

Plugs will be wet no matter what. Only way to dry them up is to run it under load on the water for a bit.

It sounds like your not making the transition from low to main jet in the water but it is when on the trailer.

More oil means your running leaner and wetting plugs. Rich/ Lean is a description of how gas is getting to the engine. Mixing + injection makes it leaner but gives you wetter everything. If your carbs were setup with a high pop off to start off with it might be just enough to bog it down and starve it with all that extra oil.

I've been told that 38 psi is the right number for the 800 motor. The manual says 28-40. Mine at 28 is very rich, Even enough so that I could set the low speed all the way in.

I think by the way your describing it, that your running very lean. If it was running rich it would be loading up and the engine would shake and 4 stroke at small throttle openings but still Want to accelerate if you open it up.

If it was lean it would do what your describing.
If it was rich it would shake and 4 stroke but it would still make the transition to the main jet.

If it were me, I'd try at 1.5 turns out on the low speed's and move richer until you regain the transition from low to main jet. Once your into the main jet which is around 1/4 throttle or around 3-4000 rpm it will probably feel better.

 

[Axkiker]

Plugs will be wet no matter what. Only way to dry them up is to run it under load on the water for a bit.

It sounds like your not making the transition from low to main jet in the water but it is when on the trailer.

More oil means your running leaner and wetting plugs. Rich/ Lean is a description of how gas is getting to the engine. Mixing + injection makes it leaner but gives you wetter everything. If your carbs were setup with a high pop off to start off with it might be just enough to bog it down and starve it with all that extra oil.

I've been told that 38 psi is the right number for the 800 motor. The manual says 28-40. Mine at 28 is very rich, Even enough so that I could set the low speed all the way in.

I think by the way your describing it, that your running very lean. If it was running rich it would be loading up and the engine would shake and 4 stroke at small throttle openings but still Want to accelerate if you open it up.

If it was lean it would do what your describing.
If it was rich it would shake and 4 stroke but it would still make the transition to the main jet.

If it were me, I'd try at 1.5 turns out on the low speed's and move richer until you regain the transition from low to main jet. Once your into the main jet which is around 1/4 throttle or around 3-4000 rpm it will probably feel better.

Thanks for the info... I ordered a carb kit just in case.. In the mean time ill take it back to the ramp once again and try screwing with the low speed needle.

 

[Axkiker]

Okay kids heres the update... Mekanix was right on the money. It was apparently starved for fuel. Now here is the crazy thing. I had to open the low jets up over 2 full turns in order to get it to run descent.

It seems to somewhat miss and stumble when slowly opening up the throttle until you hit roughly 1/2 - 3/4 throttle. Then runs fantastic.

Pulled the plugs after running the throttle up and down for a while and the plugs did indeed dry out. Seem to have a darkish greyish sorta tanish color. Is that lean ?????

Thanks for the help its getting closer

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

Plugs should be brown, grey is lean. This is subjective because of our fuel being made for fuel injection but I find mine brown.

Assuming the carbs are thoroughly cleaned and the fuel system is confirmed tip-top with no inward air leaks, the fuel pump is operating correctly and WOT is strong, my favorite remedy for eliminating a mid-range lean condition is increasing pilot jet size by installing next size up orifice to fatten the mid-range.

My apologies to the EPA, but my feeling is the environmental load posed by failed engines is greater than that from well running ones, thus this isn't really about environmental issues, it's about corporate profits and planned obsolescence.

 

[Axkiker]

Plugs should be brown, grey is lean. This is subjective because of our fuel being made for fuel injection but I find mine brown.

Assuming the carbs are thoroughly cleaned and the fuel system is confirmed tip-top with no inward air leaks, the fuel pump is operating correctly and WOT is strong, my favorite remedy for eliminating a mid-range lean condition is increasing pilot jet size by installing next size up orifice to fatten the mid-range.

My apologies to the EPA, but my feeling is the environmental load posed by failed engines is greater than that from well running ones, thus this isn't really about environmental issues, it's about corporate profits and planned obsolescence.

Okay, then Im betting that im running slightly lean as the color almost had a slight tan color. Still prolly too much greay but I dont think its far off.

So what in the world is going on. The factory setting for these is low 1 high 0. I should not need anywhere near 2 on the lows.

Any thoughts ???

 

[Axkiker]

Also noticed something else. It appeard that I didnt have much water flow out of the pee tail when idling. Once I gave it a little throttle it would shoot out but under idle was very little. Felt the water box and it seemed to be pretty darn warm. Not so hot I could not keep my hand on it but pretty warm

Does this sound normal ??? Sorry this is my first XP ever.. heck its my first ski ever.

 

[ocod]

Okay, then Im betting that im running slightly lean as the color almost had a slight tan color. Still prolly too much greay but I dont think its far off.

So what in the world is going on. The factory setting for these is low 1 high 0. I should not need anywhere near 2 on the lows.

Any thoughts ???

SabrToothSqrl had similar problems tuning carb and ended up he was using the wrong main jet.

Can you confirm the jets inside of carb??

 

[Sportster-2001-951C-Stock]

The general rule for determining if one of the surfaces is too hot is, if it burns the skin on casual touching, it's probably too hot. /my seadoo has barely a trickle from the tell-tale "pisser" at idle, this seems normal.

It's a good idea to test the overheat buzzer by grounding the wire at minimum, and the actual sensor as well, which involves placing the sensor in hot water on a heating plate.