1996 seadoo challenger

[dabbott]

Just purchased this 14.5 jet boat and saw oil in bilge a lot of oil. I knew
that this boat sat foe two years and the motor was in question. I bought
it and purhased a new 787 motor from florida and had a dealer install it.
I cleaned this boat from stem to stern mint cond. got ot back in such a mess
dirty and grease all over it. they took this boat up to the lake and ran it.
the dealer was very vaig about saying to much. I was told to run the new motor with high test gas and put a pint of synthetic oil in the gas. I called
the motor mfg. and they said no way. I took it out for an hour befor the weather got cold and added staybil to the gas before running it so it
would mix well. also dealer put a qt. of breakin oil into system before
testing it. when we got home oil was on the floor new oil not old stuff.
no sign of where it is coming from. come spring i will persue this more.
I was told that oil in bilge was common in all jet boats, even new ones.
any thoughts on my oil problem?

 

[kustomkarl]

Hull should be oil free!

First off welcome the forum.
I own a 1997 Challenager with a 787 engine in it. There should be no oil in the Hull of the boat! Does you boat still use the Injector system and tank?
If it was me I would go back to the installing dealer and have them inspect the boat for the source of the problem now, not in the spring, while the install is still fresh in their minds and covered by their install warranty. Call the dealer and nicely explain the problem. The dealer charged you for the install so they should be responsible for the oil problem, and the mess. It could be a cracked oil tank, or a oil line improperly installed, if it still has the injector system in use. What did the engine MFG say about the mix for breakin? I would do what they say as it is their warranty that will replace or repair the motor if it has a problem. The installing dealer is only responsible for the install, and the mess left behind. Is the installing dealer a authorized seadoo dealer? Most all authorized dealers I know take pride in their work and wouldn't release the job untill it was running properly and as clean as it was receiver or better. Keep us posted on the out come or if we can be of any other help.
Karl

 

[seadoosnipe]

Just shocked!

I'm shocked that a mechanic has done this to your Doo. I completely agree with Karl on his reply. There should be no oil in your bilge what so ever!....The major source of oil that could be causing this is your rotary valve chamber. If you'll look on the port side of your engine, about half way down in the center, between the two piston, you'll see oil lines for this chamber. It's got two seals around the crank to keep the rotary oil seperated from the connecting rods and combustion chamber of the engine.
When pulling the old motor out, I can see them disconnecting the old oil lines to make the mess but if your seeing new oil, then there's a problem and like Karl says, I wouldn't wait till spring!
Your gas requirement from the manafacturer for your engine type is 87 octane. Which is regular grade.
As Karl said, you need to find out if your engine is still using the oil injection tank. If they disconnected it, then you have to make sure the oil pump shaft has been removed from the engine and the inlet to the pump has been pluged. You need to also make sure that the oil tank is still there, filled with synthetic or mineral oil that is low ash, non NMMA oil. You cannot use a TCW-3 oil. If your rotary valve chamber is not still connect to this tank, do not run the engine. You'll burn it up!....and the mechanic should know about this chamber!
Do as Karl says, don't wait. It's obvious this mechanic is not an OEM certified mechanic to work on the ROTAX engine. I'm completely and utterly shocked at the quality of workmanship you've received.
Let us know how you come out on this. But please, don't wait!

 

[dabbott]

oil in bilge

yes the tank is connected and filled with synthetic oil the best they have low ash 38 bucks a gallon. i completely cleaned this boat of any oil before i ran this boat up to the seadoo dealer in monroe ct. i called the mechanic back
after we took this boat out for an hour and bought it back home. opened up
motor hatch and saw about a shot glass of oil mixed with some water not
directly under motor. I looked for leaks and saw nothing. checked oil tank
for seam cracks or oil line leakage none. I called the mechanic and he said all
seadoos leak oil, even new ones. i said i will check this statement out further.
not owning a rotax two stroke i was not going to call him a liar. boat ran
great for the hour, but was suprised to see the oil. I could not believe the
mess this boat was in when i went to pick it up. I was told by a gentleman
selling an outboard motor to a friend of mine and he also had problems with
this dealer. i see this oil problem as a potential problem, but dealer says live with it. i was charged 1800.00 for them to install this new motor that i purchased new rebuilt from SBT in fla. they said one price over the phone
turned out to need two carbs used $400.00 i have owned high performance
boats befor , but not a two stroke. I now know i got stroaked! only two
dealers around me and they are far apart. thanks again for your help.

 

[seadoosnipe]

Sorry....

Sorry for your mis-fortune, but this guy did get over on you. I don't know what, if anything you can do. But you can tell him for me and probably any other member that's owned and worked on these engines for any period of time, THEY DON'T LEAK OIL!.........
If he pulled the old engine out by just pulling off the hoses to the rotary valve, this can be the source of your oil. This oil is not burned in the engine, it's only for lubrication. The oil could have rolled up toward the front of the hull, but I'd keep an eye on it.
Mark the level in your oil tank with a sharpie and after running it, check the oil level. You don't mention whether or not your still using the oil injection system. With the new SBT engine, you can go to their web page and get the info first hand (not trusting that mechanic) on break in (I think the mix is 24:1, but don't quote me) from their main page. If you look on the left, you'll see their installation and break in procedures for you to print off. If you like, you can talk to one of their reps, tell him what the mechanic said about the oil in these engines. See if his response isn't the same as ours!...They do carry a one year no fault warranty on their standard engine and 2 years on their premium engine.
One more thing. The ROTAX engine is a 2 cycle engine but that's the only thing they have in common with a standard out-board motor. Built in Australia, these motors are built to last. There are two major differences in the way they operate that's different from a regular 2-cycle. They use a timed rotary valve for your carb intake and they have a RAVE (rotax adjustable varible exhaust) system, which is their patented design.
Be sure to get the necessary info from SBT on the break-in procedure. :rant:

 

[dabbott]

1996 seadoo challenger oil leagage

update, I took your advice about poor workmanship and contacted dealer
about the oil problem in bilge. just befor i called i pulled out the boat, lifted
motor hatch, wow! i lost about 2" of oil from tank and it is sitting under motor.
proceded to contact the head mechanic and was told he no longer works for
them. i told story to the new mechanic and he checked back with me right
away. bring back boat to us and we will correct problem. bringing back today.

i also found out that their is a oil pump seal and a small amount of oil that
must be changed for storage reasons. i was told by another dealer since you
bought this boat as is, pull punp assy. check for water in oil, also replace o-ring and new oil. if any water was in the oil it will freeze and crack. why
would the mfg. make it so hard to get at to check? will have them winter store it in a heated building. i am very self concious about having things work
well and clean parts kept that way. if i was not told about the oil seal and
oil in pump. what a problem i will have in the spring.

 

[kustomkarl]

That's great news the dealer is going to stand behind there service! If you look at the bottom of the oil injector tank you will see any water on the bottom of the tank as water and oil seperate and water is heaver and more dense so it will settle on the bottom of the tank. Checking and replacing the plastic shaft that drives the pump and the O ring is a good idea. Besure to have the dealer check the oil pump adjustment on the cable and do a good double check of the install the old mechanic did just for confidence of it being correct. Leaving the Seadoo in a heated area for the winter is a sure way to know it won't freeze and cause any problems with water anywhere in the engine lines/ pump/ fiberglass cavity of the boat. If you join as a premium member you can access the shop manual for you boat and check the proper proceedure for winterizing your doo, or any repairs you feel up to doing. Click on the link at the top of the page for details under "seadoo manuals". These manuals are from Seadoo Direct, and can be printed or just read on the computer as they are in a pdf file.Very inexpensive for the information they supply. Keep us posted and come back soo...
Karl

 

[Dennis]

Oil Pump Seal?

If I was a betting man I'd bet the dealer isn't refering to the engine oil pump at all. I'd bet they're talking about servicing the jet pump. Think about it..........they say there's a small amount of oil, a seal (probably refering to cone o ring or front seal) and if water were to get inside and freeze it could crack the housing. Call me crazy but I bet that's what there talking about.
If so, the next thing I'd be willing to bet on is that they wouldn't do a very good job! Dawg

 

[seadoosnipe]

Poker!

If I was playing poker, I'd place my bet on your information being on target Dawg.
I too believe he is talking about the oil in the pump. The "0" ring is the one that seals the "cone" cap to the pump housing. Your suppose to check and change this oil once a season. :agree:

I'm glad they decided to bring it back in and redo this work for you. It seems to me that the oil problem, with a 2" drop in your tank, will be from the oil lines that supply the rotary chamber.

 

[kustomkarl]

Ok, I re-read the post and yes it makes sense that water in the impeller pump, would be a threat to freezing problems. I had oil and pump on my mind from all the previous post...but yea it could be the water in the impeller pump...I would definitely check the impeller pump o ring and the oil for water. Keep us posted with your progress. Hope it turns out all good...
Karl

 

[Gunsrunner]

Hello all,
I have also had my boat trashed by others when it came through customs, they said it had to be cleaned and fumigated before it could be released. But they didn't say that they would have a young idiot with work boots on jumping all over the upolstry, greasy boot prints all over. I could have done and did do a better job of cleaning.
Have to say one thing, i know its a month late but just read this. Sorry seadoosnipe.
I wish that the rotax was built in Australia instead of Austria, then i wouldn't have such a hard time getting parts for my boat.
I am sorry to point out such a small typing error but it should be put straight.
Would also like to mention i am enjoying Seadoosnipe's rebuild of the 787 and keep up the good work.
P.S. If you have Australia on the mind you might like to pay me a visit and bring some parts with you!!!:cheers:

 

[seadoosnipe]

Lol..........

LOL......I do remember that typo and forgot to correct it. I have since then done a complete post on the history line of the Rotax, and your right, it's never been in Australia........sorry for the mistake.
You should still be able to order your parts though. Doesn't any of the parts dealers here in the forum, that we link to have international service? There has to be a way for you to keep your Doo maintained!....oh, and as much as I'd like to go down under, I don't think the money that a pauper like me makes could find a low priced flight to get me there though.
Maybe I could become an international deliverer of Sea-Doo parts and make enough money to make it to these beautiful parts of the world.
My daughters and I just watched a show about the Parrots of the out back. Seems like ya'll have as bad a problem with Parrots as we do with Sea-gulls.....the country side in the video was beautiful though. Especially the seaside!.........
Good luck, and thanks for coming back for a visit. By the way. What part are you in need of? I'd like to look around, maybe I can find some information on it for you!....

 

[Gunsrunner]

G'day,
I was cleaning rave's today and found one to have a broken spring, managed to find some at Seadoosource.com. The only prob with that is the 10 days wait, its summer here with light easterly's all day, perfect Seadoo day's.

I am looking for carby rebuild kits for minuki sb40-38's, should also get kits for rave's while i'm at it. Tacko is a bit sticky so interested maybe, fuel gauge no go, tested ohms all good, still checking that one
Waiting on new starter motor to arrive and boat cover.
The list goes on, on, and on!!!!!!
All i want to do is go boating.
Keep it up on the 787 it's helping heaps will take mine out in winter and overhaul.
P.s. I see you are a plant operater also, LOL on the coin.

 

[seadoosnipe]

parts?

Yeah, I'm on one of those 12 hour rotating shift kinda work schedules. Man, they take their toll sometimes on my tired old body....but I'll make it.
On your RAVES.....unless the bellows is punctured somewhere or just worn out, then I'd not worry much about them. The manual says to just clean the deposits once a year. And on my 787, I find they work best with the red caps adjusted all the way down.
I know it's just itching you to get out into that nice water to bo boatin, but guess what, for some reason, it takes 7 to 10 business days to get my parts here too!.....sometimes, I can get them in 4 or 5, but not all the time.
I'm sending you a PM, how about look on the top right for the Personal Message link......