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'04 3D. Won't run and ABSOLUTELY baffling the pro's.

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RugDog

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Howdy, I'm new to this forum. I'm Darin and I have a problem. My '04 3D stopped running last fall, here's the story.

'04 3D. Last year, it started running rough for the 1st minute or so. Then would run better. Like when dirt bike is rough till it warms up and you rev it to "clean it out". Then one day, it ran rough, then wouldn't run better. I took it to the local SeeDoo dealer, the only authorized service dealer in driving distance from Harrisburg PA. Don's Kawasaki in York PA.

They charged me almost $300 to diagnose the problem, which they said was the stator. Also, when I got it back, it wouldn't run at all. I asked why it was running when I dropped it off, and wouldn't run when I picked it up. They said the stator was starting to go bad before I dropped it off. Then failed completely when they tested it. They said, $700 to replace the stator. We didn't have the money, so we parked it till this year. We dropped it off June 22nd, it's now Aug 4th.

The called after a week and said. They replaced the stator, it would be $800. But now the coil was testing bad, That would be another $100. I VERY reluctantly said ok. They called a week later. They ordered the wrong coil, the RIGHT coil would be another $100, now $200. I said, forget, I'll come get the ski and throw it away. The wife said, fix it. So they replaced the coil. They called a week later. That didn't fix the problem, they were now ordering another electronic thingie, I forget what it was. More $$ though. *whew* Ok. They called back. "That didn't fix it, it won't run, we have no idea why." They would try some more things and get back to us. They called back, they still don't know what's wrong. They had SeeDoo on the phone for over an hour. SeeDoo doesn't know what to do. They have ordered and tried over $3000 worth of electrical things as well as try known working parts off other skis at the shop since we dropped it off. They did however say they were't charging us for those things since they didn't fix the problem and the ski wont run. The latest is, they called another SeeDoo shop in NJ. The guys there gave them some ideas to try. Don's tried them, Nothing worked. It still won't run. They have more ideas they will try. But no one seems to have any idea at all as to how to get my 3D to run. The authorizes SeeDoo center, the SeeDoo factory, the other SeeDoo dealer in NJ etc. None of them. They have been kind, and they are obviously frustrated with the whole thing. They won't get paid till I get a running ski back. And I'm sure they don't want to admit they are incompetent.

I suspected that perhaps the guy that put the stator in did something wrong, and the failure is hidden. They did have to pull the motor to replace the stator. But at this point, I'm also sure there is no way they haven't check that.

I haven't asked, but I'm pretty sure the reason it won't run is spark. Or lack of.

Thoughts?

At this point, I'm not ready to name call or throw accusations of complete incompetence around. The wife and I are getting pretty darn frustrated though. We don't have alot of money to throw at this ski. We did pay A LOT of money for it new, hoping we could take care of it, and wouldn't have problems with it.

I'll keep you posted!

BTW: Any other guitar players?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtCrHmAvDkk

-Darin


*hmmm* I just had a thought. Could a sensor form the oil (oil injection) tank be saying it's empty, and not letting it start?
 
It will start with low oil... but it will be in limp mode.

This is exactly why I hate dealers. The don't do any real troubleshooting... and they just make the owner throw $$$ to try to fix the problem. I get so F'ing pissed off when I hear this. (and it happens a few times a year)

Personally, if a part doesn't fix the issue... I wouldn't pay for it. I would tell them to take it out at their expense. AND... if it was me... I would have a lawyer sending them a letter reflecting my position. You shouldn't have to pay for an incompetent mechanic that doesn't know what end of the screwdriver to use. (F'ing MORON's)


Well... since the problem has been so convoluted because 2 shops have been pissing with it, it may be hard to figure out now. Also... who knows... someone may have shorted something out.

If these guys are real seadoo shops... they should have all the special equipment to test every single part in the ski "off line", to actually find the problem.

I'm not sure what advice to give you at this point other than... get the manual, and try to do it yourself.

If you want to drag it to Latrobe... I can try to figure it out for you.

I'm very sorry about all the problems.
 
*UPDATE*

Well. Talked to the owner of Dons Kawasaki today. He's was genuinely as frustrated I am about getting this thing on the water. He has one last thing to try. The factory says the ECU...er um ECM? One of those, I forget what he called it exactly. But it's the last thing, seriously, THE last electrical thing that hasn't been replaced. The factory says that it can't be causing the problem that we're having. But since it's the only thing left, we assume it MUST be the solution. He also said that the one we need is specific to that model, and year. And it's $1000. If we order it, and it doesn't work, I'm out $1000 cause he can't send it back. Thankfully, he found a same year 3D we can borrow their unit off of to stick it on mine to test and see if it is indeed the problem. We'll know Monday or Tuesday.

I keep ya posted. The mystery is confounding! They had the factory on the phone half a dozen times!!

Any theories?
 
you poor man... Don's is the biggest rip off / shitty work place going in the area... I know... I've personally seen their work and helped rebuild many an engine that goes through there... they charge $70/hr to have a 15 year old work on your stuff. never have parts in stock, and any part online for $10 is $25 there.... I avoid that place like the plague.
 
My XP (before i bought it) went through there... they left 6 lbs (NOT KIDDING) of sand in the hull after an engine rebuild... I always clean the inside. non working bilge pump, missing screws / bolts all over ski, loose nuts / bolts, just poor work in general.... scupper devices clogged with oil, etc.... just all over shoddy work...
 
Thankfully, he found a same year 3D we can borrow their unit off of to stick it on mine to test and see if it is indeed the problem. We'll know Monday or Tuesday.

I can only hope that the owner of that other 3D has been consulted for permissions for them to do this. Nothing would make me madder than to find out a shop was taking parts off of my ski to troubleshoot an unknown problem in another ski.

I feel for you brother. I hope you finally get this resolved.
 
The worst part is. I have no way of knowing what actually fixes the problem. I'll just have to take their word for it. I am preparing myself to scream into a pillow when I get the bill. We have a 3D that wouldn't run, I don't know how to fix it, they are the only SeeDoo service center around. I have no choice but to take it there and hope for the best. I hope that whatever it is that gets fixed stays fixed. I don't think I could replace it with another 3D for the repair charges.

If I knew what really was the part that was the problem, I would certainly feel competent to replace it myself. Besides the stator since it supposedly requires engine removal. I'm a flooring contractor, not a mechanic. So I think I could use my time more wisely installing a floor and earning enough to pay a professional to do the repairs. I have to trust, for my own well being of mind, that they are being honest about it all.
 
It's now April 3rd 2012!!! And....my ski is STILL at Don's Kawasaki in York, PA and STILL not running. Apparently their top guy, along with many calls to SeaDoo has not done anything to get my ski in the water.

I have no words of advice for anyone with a similar problem, other than to throw your ski away and buy another one, because obviously, the problem what ever it is, is terminal.

They (Don's) said every component checks out fine, but it won't spark. I know they want to get paid for the work they did, so they have no incentive in NOT repairing it. And I ain't giving them a dime until it's running like a top. The only thing they have not replaced is the ECM. And SeaDoo says that cannot be the problem. So no one wants to spend the $1000 to find out if it is or not. I suspect it IS the problem. But I am NOT ordering a $1k part on a "guess".
 
I can only hope that the owner of that other 3D has been consulted for permissions for them to do this. Nothing would make me madder than to find out a shop was taking parts off of my ski to troubleshoot an unknown problem in another ski.

I feel for you brother. I hope you finally get this resolved.

The loaner part never panned out, never got to try it. Soooooo. Still dead in the water.
 
I would say if they indeed tried everything else (which is questionable) I would try to reconcile on what was done already (you owe them something) and take it home.

Then, find a used MPEM. Is it a 787 or 951? You should post pix of your MPEM. From some of the swaps I've done the ones from the late 90s machines will prob work. In other words...I have one of those.

If everything has been tested over and over, spec'd out, etc...its prob the MPEM regardless of what Seadoo says. I'm surprised Seadoo wont send the dealer one or send yours in for evaluation.

Electrical issues blow goats....but the dealers should have every last weapon at their disposal to deal with it.
 
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DONE!!! Picked it up today. And it was................................... a broken pin in a wiring harness!! They tested it a few times, each wire, pin, component etc. But the pin would still make contact sometimes, so it checked out ok at first.

*whew*

Took it for a freezing ride on the river just to make sure! :)
 
I'm curious, how much was the bill for a broken pin?


Me too.

When I bought my Polaris, I found 3 bad pins in the wiring harness. AND... I got creative to fix it since I didn't want to buy the factory plug, with the tiny little pins for the main power supply. It took me about an hour. BUT... that's why I got it so cheap. The shop couldn't figure it out, and the owner bought a new ski.

Most so called "Pro's" turn a wrench because they can't do anything else. (no offence to our board wrenches)



Well.............. I'm glad it's running for you now.


here's my fix. (The red plug is my bypass)

32.jpg
 
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Most pro's turn a wrench because they can't do anything else. I seen that from you a few times. What exactly do you mean by that Doc?
 
Most pro's turn a wrench because they can't do anything else. I seen that from you a few times. What exactly do you mean by that Doc?

Without being too offensive to anyone.... generally speaking... the kids that go to Vo-Tech are the kids that can't pass high school. I'm not saying all of them... but most.

I, myself... I got out of high school with 30 extra credits, and then got my ASE tests done. Then I went to collage for 7.5 years, and got a Bio, Liberal arts, and a Physics Degrees. (with a math minor, and worked on my EE) Then, I spent 7 years in an R&D lab, becoming the lead chemist, and designing custom instrumentation for the exploration of a micro-fine carrier system. Kodak dreamed up the system... but I ran with it, and developed the functional system.

At the age of 36, I got tired of corporate america, and opened my machine shop. So... as you can see... I'm not the typical mechanic. AND... I get pissed off at mechanics that can't trouble shoot a problem, and that their solution is to just change parts until they fix it. (at the customers expense)
 
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I agree with Dr. Honda, I work at a plant where you have to figure it out and not just throw parts at it. What you learn from each problem just helps you the next time. At work we call it going thru the South East Texas School of Hard Knocks. Glad you got it running RugDog, now have fun and safe.

Gene
 
They did still charge us for the replaced parts. Weather it really needed a stator, coil....... etc. I'll never know for sure. But what I do know. Is it wasn't running for a year and a half, and now it is. The bill was around $1600. I took it to the river last night. It was 57 deg and the water was probably 50 deg. So I didn't get wet! It ran great, The throttle cable is dry and could use lubed/replaced. I have done cables on dirt bikes with a cable luber tool. Can I do this on the 3D throttle cable to buy me a year before I replace it?
 
LOL yeah I had those on my rc car.

Agreed Dr. Honda...sounds like no one in that shop knew how to use a multi-meter. They prob took it to a different dealer! LOL
 
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