Starter or Engine? Siezed or ???? 1996 GSX 717

[bernie321]

I have read about every thread on here using the search feature looking for answers to my problem.

I thought it was electrical, but maybe not. My problem is like so many listed, so I read two days worth of posts and still don't have my problem fixed.

My problem, clicking noise out of the electrical box. Press the start button, nothing but a slight tick, and then several pops, NONE of which are coming from the starter.

I did replace the solenoid with a new plastic bodied solenoid relay direct from the local Sea Doo repair shop. Replaced, and nothing different. I have swapped the battery (a new one, 3 weeks old) with a new sealed battery. Still no change. I have also arched the solenoid and sparks from the posts, but doesn't turn over the starter. Using an electrical tester, the starter side of the old and new solenoid was weaker.

Made me think the Starter may have gone bad, as I am getting power to the hot (red) wire connection at the starter.

****what I could not find in the previous posts is this: Can a starter that has gone bad or locked make the engine (crankshaft) appear to be seized? I also removed the jet pump and the shaft does not turn. (Did turn clockwise but was removing the shaft end at the end of the jet assembly) Is it possible the starter going bad could make the lower end seem siezed? I am close to taking the ski to the dealer, knowing for a rebuilt starter replacement with labor should be about $350 +/-.

Am I missing something obvious. I am very capable of replacing and rebuilding the starter, but it seems I may be chasing a neverending problem by slowly replacing parts. Solenoid first, then starter, then????

I know the obvious, and so many threads have similar problems, but I just can't nail down the answer as to whether the starter can bind and make the engine feel/seem seized.

Any help, please let me say thank you ahead of time. I have a few more holes in the wall to beat my head against before I go back out in the garage...probably tomorrow.
:banghead:

 

[Comp]

Pull the spark plugs, remove the impeller shaft cover and try to turn the engine with the the shaft.

 

[bernie321]

Did that:

"****what I could not find in the previous posts is this: Can a starter that has gone bad or locked make the engine (crankshaft) appear to be seized? I also removed the jet pump and the shaft does not turn. (Did turn clockwise but was removing the shaft end at the end of the jet assembly) Is it possible the starter going bad could make the lower end seem siezed?"

Ski made absolutely no loud noises or sharp stop. Was loaded on a lift ramp on a houseboat, next morning, nothing.

 

[Comp]

I suppose it could be possible if the starter siezed with the bendix stuck out it may lock the engine. But a little confused when you say it would turn one direction and not the other. Pull the starter off the engine and then check to see if engine will turn. You can also bench test the starter, put power to it and see if it spins.

 

[bigJake]

similiar problem in this thread, turned out to be his starter.

http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?46116-99-spx-won-t-start-turn-over

 

[bernie321]

Quick clarification:
When I pulled the jet pump, removed the shaft cover cone and put a wrench on the shaft. Couldn't turn the impeller by hand. The shaft end only turned clockwise, end of shaft unscrews to remove shaft end. Could not budge counter-clockwise. If there is another way to turn the shaft I am unaware of, please let me know. Looks like it my be work on the starter tomorrow.

 

[Thumper3322]

Let me save you lots of time and frustration. jake posted my thread above. Yes the starter can seize and make the engine feel like it is seized. first thing i should have done, pull out the starter and i got 5 bucks says you can turn the crank np.
I bet the gear on the end of your starter has been warn and finally got stuck. What was wrong with mine.
Good luck with the one hex bolt at the back of the starter. Biggest pain in my ass over any other bolt.
Cheers!

 

[bernie321]

Thanks Jake and Thumper. I am hoping that is the issue. Regardless, this forum is a new favorite for my internet browsing. It's nice to have such an impactful resource so readily available. I will post a reply once I get the starter free.

Everything else I read, I'll be buying a rebuild kit or a rebuilt starter from my seadoo dealer. Never thought I'd hope the starter to be bad, but really hope it is.

 

[Thumper3322]

Np.... I'm glad my pain, suffering and lots of swearing can save others from it. lol.
Gl.... Oh and i had to use a breaker bar to get those bolts off when only using a hex key.

 

[crisso]

Get some mirrors that magnify.Woman use them for make-up and crap(some pillow biters use them also)and learn to work with them and a lead-light(leed-light).It does make life just a little bit easier

 

[bernie321]

Just an FYI...
As soon as the three bolts were released, the starter came out with little resistance and then the shaft turned very easily. The front end of starter wheel was worn off at a 45 degree angle. I will be picking up a rebuilt one or a rebuild kit, whichever I can get sooner.

The flywheel feels a little worn, with a slight angle, but I believe it is not supposed to be at a 90 degree square edge. Is that right. Looking through manual but I'm sure I'll just see a diagram and not a photo. lots of fine metal shavings and chunks in the grease around the flywheel from the pieces of the starter wheel worn away.

I haven't seen any pics on here of the starters pulled after inspecting. I may post a few after I get this all done.

 

[BMANN06]

Your flywheel is likely okay, they'll make the starters gear out of a weaker alloy so that when this happens you don't have to replace both.

 

[Thumper3322]

So where is my 5 bucks? Lol jk glad it was just the starter. My teeths are worn the same.
Can you post some pics of the fly wheel you are talking about.? Plz.
Your fly wheel will be fine. Probably only need new teeths on the starter, but I'm just buying a new one for a 100 bucks worth knowing i should be good for years to come.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

Its not very typical to have a starter stick like that. Last one I had do that it was b/c the crank was wobbling from a bad bearing.

 

[bernie321]

Here are a few pics. The starter gear/wheel is only slightly worn or the edge. I am new to these machines, but I am really surprised this is all it took.

I also used the camera and mirrors to viwe the flywheel, and it is fine.

Here is some bad news....:cuss:

Once I could turn the shaft (Immediately after I dislodged the starter), I noticed the grease fitting on the PTO Flywheel is sheared off. Don't know how long that has been like it. WOndering if that could have possibly led to wobbling or something else to move the starter to binding up and siezing everything. ugh. I'll take a pic of the fitting I found in the bottom of the hull.

 

[Thumper3322]

Ya looks fine. Your starter looks like in better shape than mine did lol. How did you find getting the back hex bolt off, the one upside down and can barely reach? I had my carbs off and still hard to get at.

Ouch! that's not good. Something much of hit it hard and broke it off?!

 

[bernie321]

Lower bolt was hard until.......

I found this little ratcheting hex tool for $4 at Harbor Freight. With all the 6mm bolts I have taken out of this ski, I bought an extra. I only need 1" clearance.

Guess I'm talking to See Doo shop tomorrow to see what I need to do to get the grease fitting replaced. We'll see.

Thank you all for your assistance. I'll let ya know how this works out.

 

[Minnetonka4me]

The grease zerk just threaded in there...a reverse direction drill bit and it will come right out.


Best things ever at harbor freight? The ball hex bits, and the little tiny air ratchets. Use them constantly.

 

[bigJake]

The grease zerk just threaded in there...a reverse direction drill bit and it will come right out.


Best things ever at harbor freight? The ball hex bits, and the little tiny air ratchets. Use them constantly.

Are you saying that you bought a Central Pneumatic air tool at Harbor Freight and it actually works? So you're the one....

 

[bigJake]

So where is my 5 bucks? Lol jk glad it was just the starter. My teeths are worn the same.
QUOTE]

Damn, didn't your Ma teach you to not gnaw on rocks?

 

[Seadoobuddy]

Minne'...can you post a pic of the 2 tools? hex ball socket and the mini air ratchet?

 

[crisso]

There is a pic posted

 

[crisso]

Sorry.Not of the gear you wanted.Go and hi-jack a snap-on van

 

[bernie321]

Just an FYI......
I bought a Sea Doo Rebuild starter, and the shop hooked up the starter and tested it, and The starter shaft had a slight wobble which most likely led to the siezing. Already put it back in, waiting to find "ethanol resistant" fuel lines to replace while I have the room with the other parts removed. Thank you for all who gave me your help and hints.

This forum is great.

 

[Thumper3322]

Just an FYI......
I bought a Sea Doo Rebuild starter, and the shop hooked up the starter and tested it, and The starter shaft had a slight wobble which most likely led to the siezing. Already put it back in, waiting to find "ethanol resistant" fuel lines to replace while I have the room with the other parts removed. Thank you for all who gave me your help and hints.

This forum is great.

Good to hear!! I bought SBT one, since it seems up here in Canada can't get any aftermarket starters out of stock and a seadoo one is $230+tax.

I put in Tygon lines, clear yellow, I hear the best, more pricey, but screw it easy to work with and don't have to worry about them.