kicker
Well-Known Member
Ya thanks Rob, I have read lots of threads of guys flipping out because there brand new rebuild has low compression. I didn't think it was that big of a gap though.
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Ya thanks Rob, I have read lots of threads of guys flipping out because there brand new rebuild has low compression. I didn't think it was that big of a gap though.
Jetskigoodies
Well-Known Member
The rv should have some oil on it, but you have it off now so just rub some on yourself. It is timed correctly though, we have timed many of these within the last year and that mark looks dead on to me. Everything to me looks really good, I just think he traced and cut a new rv for you the same size. It looks like a standard 159 degree rv to me. When I say traced and cut, i dont mean with a pencil and tin snips either, it looks machine done. That is for sure a new rv
Here is a pic of where mine is lined up
The mark that is visible on yours should be at 146.5. To get that you start by getting your piston to top dead center then you line up the degree wheel so that 360 is at the bottom of the mag side opening. You the mark that and hold it in place, you then go counter clockwise to the 146.5 degree and mark that. That is your timing opening or btdc(before top dead center). The rest of the process you move the degree wheel so the 360 is now on the top of the opening and hold it there then go clockwise to 64 degrees and mark that. That mark is timing closing or atdc(after top dead center). Now you just place the rv on so it sits between the 146.5 and the 64 mark. Just a side note for anyone trying this, if it does not fit right when you put it on just flip it over and it should line up. We may have done this once or twice lol
Notice 360 is below the opening, this is where to place the degree wheel to line up btdc
This is 146.5 marked, you can see the marker on the outer side of the circle
This is the 64 marked or atdc, you can see that the 360 would be above the opening. It is at 64 it is just a weird angle that makes it look like 63
Ok this picture is just a picture off of yahoo images but I did not have a picture of the rv placed between my marks, but here is what it would look like in place. Note this is not a 159 rv, it looks more like a 147 or even a 130 but you will get the idea of how it should be placed between to marks.
Sorry if I turned this into a how to time your motor. Just wanted to show your mark on the cases look to be dead on.
Here is a pic of where mine is lined up
The mark that is visible on yours should be at 146.5. To get that you start by getting your piston to top dead center then you line up the degree wheel so that 360 is at the bottom of the mag side opening. You the mark that and hold it in place, you then go counter clockwise to the 146.5 degree and mark that. That is your timing opening or btdc(before top dead center). The rest of the process you move the degree wheel so the 360 is now on the top of the opening and hold it there then go clockwise to 64 degrees and mark that. That mark is timing closing or atdc(after top dead center). Now you just place the rv on so it sits between the 146.5 and the 64 mark. Just a side note for anyone trying this, if it does not fit right when you put it on just flip it over and it should line up. We may have done this once or twice lol
Notice 360 is below the opening, this is where to place the degree wheel to line up btdc
This is 146.5 marked, you can see the marker on the outer side of the circle
This is the 64 marked or atdc, you can see that the 360 would be above the opening. It is at 64 it is just a weird angle that makes it look like 63
Ok this picture is just a picture off of yahoo images but I did not have a picture of the rv placed between my marks, but here is what it would look like in place. Note this is not a 159 rv, it looks more like a 147 or even a 130 but you will get the idea of how it should be placed between to marks.
Sorry if I turned this into a how to time your motor. Just wanted to show your mark on the cases look to be dead on.
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well, you should check the rotary valve clearance while its apart, cause too tight results in a overheat condition, and too much clearance wil be a hard start condition, with the o ring off, take an angled feeler guage, and clearance between cover and valve should be .012 plus or minus .002, or the solder method, take valve off and torque cover with solder in space and you should have .032 ....when you take it apart and mic it after it squishes.
and your alignment spec for rotary valve is 147 degrees btdc -- plus or minus 5 deg.
and yes, apply a film of injection oil on both sides of valve when you put it back together
and your alignment spec for rotary valve is 147 degrees btdc -- plus or minus 5 deg.
and yes, apply a film of injection oil on both sides of valve when you put it back together
kicker
Well-Known Member
That's great information guys, thanks.
Just a couple questions, what is the best way to measure TDC if you don't have the dial indicator, I am assuming just with a tape measure and by eye? Also with the valve clearance, I dont have angle gauges, so I will use the soldier method, is there a type of soldier that should or should not be used? I thought I read somewhere that 1 worked better then the other but couldn't find it.
Just a couple questions, what is the best way to measure TDC if you don't have the dial indicator, I am assuming just with a tape measure and by eye? Also with the valve clearance, I dont have angle gauges, so I will use the soldier method, is there a type of soldier that should or should not be used? I thought I read somewhere that 1 worked better then the other but couldn't find it.
any solder that is thicker than .032 --- also, hate to post this on this thread, but , it takes all the doubt out of installing a rotary valve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL5gfQs_UA -- this sorta, if you watch it a few times, puts a real clear picture in your head when you do it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULL5gfQs_UA -- this sorta, if you watch it a few times, puts a real clear picture in your head when you do it
ocod
Well-Known Member
Use your spark plug.
Flip it so the threads are pointing up.
You'll see the spark plug move up /down as you find TDC.
kinda like this..
There is no way that guy is having valves cut that is sooo odd. Maybe they are WSM?
Id be soooo pissed if I saw that over spray in the injection holes. That is a critical place not to get paint in.
Id be soooo pissed if I saw that over spray in the injection holes. That is a critical place not to get paint in.
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kicker
Well-Known Member
kicker
Well-Known Member
Had a chat with Tom, about the injector nipples and RV.
On the nipples he thought I was going to premix so he wasn't concerned with spraying the nipples. His view on oil is to go premix and mix at 32:1, and you will get 3-5 more hp, according to the dyno test. His theory is that these motors were designed when they were still putting lubricants in the fuel and now they dont for environmental reason and add ethonel which is a filler. Take it how you want, there could be 100 page thread on that alone.:lol:
As far as the RV him and in his cousin own a manufacturing machine shop and that is where he punches them out. He uses 3 different thickness's of medical grade steel. When he times the motor, he measures with degree wheel, then takes the RV a marks the spot where the opening at its biggest and then cuts the RV to size.
Sorry, the procedure above might not be exact, I had a hard time following him on the phone, but you get the idea.
I have cleaned the paint out of my injector nipples, how much air pressure can I blow through there to clean them out without damaging the check valve in the nipple?
On the nipples he thought I was going to premix so he wasn't concerned with spraying the nipples. His view on oil is to go premix and mix at 32:1, and you will get 3-5 more hp, according to the dyno test. His theory is that these motors were designed when they were still putting lubricants in the fuel and now they dont for environmental reason and add ethonel which is a filler. Take it how you want, there could be 100 page thread on that alone.:lol:
As far as the RV him and in his cousin own a manufacturing machine shop and that is where he punches them out. He uses 3 different thickness's of medical grade steel. When he times the motor, he measures with degree wheel, then takes the RV a marks the spot where the opening at its biggest and then cuts the RV to size.
Sorry, the procedure above might not be exact, I had a hard time following him on the phone, but you get the idea.
I have cleaned the paint out of my injector nipples, how much air pressure can I blow through there to clean them out without damaging the check valve in the nipple?
I am guessing he found it cheaper to make different thicknesses instead of machining the cover.
Spimothy Leary
Well-Known Member
for sure, especially the 32:1 ratio, for break in sure, but for regular use, that sure seems thick to me, but i'll leave it at that.
kicker
Well-Known Member
The rv should have some oil on it, but you have it off now so just rub some on yourself. It is timed correctly though, we have timed many of these within the last year and that mark looks dead on to me. Everything to me looks really good, I just think he traced and cut a new rv for you the same size. It looks like a standard 159 degree rv to me. When I say traced and cut, i dont mean with a pencil and tin snips either, it looks machine done. That is for sure a new rv
Here is a pic of where mine is lined up
The mark that is visible on yours should be at 146.5. To get that you start by getting your piston to top dead center then you line up the degree wheel so that 360 is at the bottom of the mag side opening. You the mark that and hold it in place, you then go counter clockwise to the 146.5 degree and mark that. That is your timing opening or btdc(before top dead center). The rest of the process you move the degree wheel so the 360 is now on the top of the opening and hold it there then go clockwise to 64 degrees and mark that. That mark is timing closing or atdc(after top dead center). Now you just place the rv on so it sits between the 146.5 and the 64 mark. Just a side note for anyone trying this, if it does not fit right when you put it on just flip it over and it should line up. We may have done this once or twice lol
Notice 360 is below the opening, this is where to place the degree wheel to line up btdc
This is 146.5 marked, you can see the marker on the outer side of the circle
This is the 64 marked or atdc, you can see that the 360 would be above the opening. It is at 64 it is just a weird angle that makes it look like 63
Ok this picture is just a picture off of yahoo images but I did not have a picture of the rv placed between my marks, but here is what it would look like in place. Note this is not a 159 rv, it looks more like a 147 or even a 130 but you will get the idea of how it should be placed between to marks.
Sorry if I turned this into a how to time your motor. Just wanted to show your mark on the cases look to be dead on.
i am putting the rv back on and have the markings from SES still visible, i dont have a degree. Am I correct if I put the mag piston to TDC and place the RV inbetween the marking?
here is another thread http://www.seadooforum.com/showthread.php?12763-degree-wheel-pdf
there is a pdf file, open it, and print it out of paper, then you have a 1 time use degree wheel -- just cut it out :cheers:
here, i had it stored on computer
you can right click on this file and store it as well
there is a pdf file, open it, and print it out of paper, then you have a 1 time use degree wheel -- just cut it out :cheers:
here, i had it stored on computer
you can right click on this file and store it as well
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SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
So glad my 951s use reed valves...
adamsbj123
New Member
Glad to hear that your rebuild is fine.
I have not been so lucky. My 787 RFI engine is back at SES now for the 3rd time for warranty. The first time I got it back it never did run right because it had water entering one cylinder. I shipped it back. The second time It ran for about 3 hours and ran lean in one cylinder. I hope they get it right this time before shipping back to me. 3rd time is a charm right? At least they sent a shipping label and paid the shipping this last time.
Are there any members with horror stories this year??
I used a place in Canada this year due to cheap shipping to their US warehouse. Shipping for two motors was $36!! It was a complete joke...one motor came 2 weeks after the other with peeling paint. Had to wait another 3 weeks for it to be fixed. Then when I had an issue (butterfly screw stripped and fell in) They didnt want to warranty it. Only after 3 calls, getting the boss on the line and telling them its heading to SBT if they wont cover it since they would have...then they covered it.
Not only that my buddy had two more motors fail with them so Im done with them.
Also for those who havent looked, Seadoo discontinued all engine parts for 951-580. So anyone claiming they are using OEM parts are lying unless they are sourcing every NOS part out there.
Personally I think the goverment told them the two strokes need to die. Why else would you quit selling pistons, Rave valves, etc?
I used a place in Canada this year due to cheap shipping to their US warehouse. Shipping for two motors was $36!! It was a complete joke...one motor came 2 weeks after the other with peeling paint. Had to wait another 3 weeks for it to be fixed. Then when I had an issue (butterfly screw stripped and fell in) They didnt want to warranty it. Only after 3 calls, getting the boss on the line and telling them its heading to SBT if they wont cover it since they would have...then they covered it.
Not only that my buddy had two more motors fail with them so Im done with them.
Also for those who havent looked, Seadoo discontinued all engine parts for 951-580. So anyone claiming they are using OEM parts are lying unless they are sourcing every NOS part out there.
Personally I think the goverment told them the two strokes need to die. Why else would you quit selling pistons, Rave valves, etc?
SabrToothSqrl
Well-Known Member
Because there was no market any more... with all the aftermarket parts; there was no profit in it.
I'm sure WSM and the like will keep our 951s and 800s running for quite a few more years.
No company exists to build things. they exist to make money. Once the money dries up, no more parts.
the 951 is also now 16 years old... how long can anyone make parts for anything?
Windows XP is FINALLY dying next year, I'm so happy
I'm so sick of telling people to throw them out. Actually that's a lie, I love telling them to toss them. Now they can finally get some Windows 7 / 8 machines and we can get stuff done.
Heck, my 1995 Tahoe (sold in 09) was getting harder and harder to find parts for... so I say sell it while it runs!
I'm sure WSM and the like will keep our 951s and 800s running for quite a few more years.
No company exists to build things. they exist to make money. Once the money dries up, no more parts.
the 951 is also now 16 years old... how long can anyone make parts for anything?
Windows XP is FINALLY dying next year, I'm so happy
I'm so sick of telling people to throw them out. Actually that's a lie, I love telling them to toss them. Now they can finally get some Windows 7 / 8 machines and we can get stuff done.Heck, my 1995 Tahoe (sold in 09) was getting harder and harder to find parts for... so I say sell it while it runs!
It just depends on the manufacturer...If it was a honda I guarantee you 90% would still be available. Hell I ordered a bunch of parts for my 84 200 3wheeler and the only parts discontinued were the headlight bezel, and the taillight bracket.
kicker
Well-Known Member
Is this the same motor you had to wait for almost a year to get done the first time? That is some bad luck. Was the running lean a problem with the rebuild or something that went wrong when reassembled and he covered it under the no fault?
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