Removing Rounded off Bolt

[bigJake]

OK guys, this post has NOTHING to do with jet skis, but there are alot of expert machinists and mechanics on here that might have some suggestions. I have a rounded off bolt that won't budge.

I was attempting to change a water heater anode rod. The head of the anode rod is a 1 1/16" bolt and sits recessed below the top of the water heater. The only 1 1/16" socket I had was a 12 point socket, so I started with that which was a big msitake as it instantly started to round off the bolt. So I went to Lowes and bought a 6 point deep well 1 1/16" impact socket. I started with a breaker bar on the 6 point socket but the socket was just lifting off the bolt (and rounding more) so I switched to putting a 24" pipe wrench on the socket and tapping it with a sledge since any leverage was just moving the whole hot water tank aross the floor. Bolt still wouldn't budge with the 24" wrench, so I sprayed it with PB Blaster and orderd a corded impact driver - I found on YouTube that this was the way to go. Well, the impact driver came today and as seen in the attached photo, it only rounded off the bolt even more. The bolt is so rounded that I was now able to tap on a 1" socket (but again I only had a 12 point) so it only spun. I assume I'm dealing with cheap Chineese steel. So I'm looking for ideas. Do I have any hope of removing this anode rod? I dont know if I now went out and bought a 6 point 1", if I could tap that onto the bolt or not. I'm a bit concerned with tapping too hard and damaging the lining of the tank. My other thought is, can I JB Weld something to the top of the bolt that I can put a socket on? At worst case I could sacrifice the 12 point 1 1/16" socket and JB Weld it to the bolt. You guys that do major mechanical work would probably weld something onto the bolt but I don't have a welder. The tank is 6 years old but apparently these rods corrode inside and basically become welded in place. The corosion "weld" may be stronger than the steel the bolt is made of, so even if I JB Weld a socket onto the bolt, it may just round off again. Ideas/Suggestions.

 

[Bowser]

Maybe just maybe if you can't get the 6 point to fit confidently you could circular saw a slot on the top of the bolt for a flat head to fit in and unscrew that way.
Worse comes to absolute worst you could JB weld or actually weld a new bolt head onto it for removal.

 

[Grim]

Can you heat it up? Do you have an impact driver, you could sacrifice a 6 or 12 point socket by hammering it on and using the impact driver, that should do it.
Also , do you know the grade of bolt, that may help with how people telling you to get it out?

 

[BrianMoore]

CRC Freeze-Off? They are a bugger. 6 point and an impact is the way I did it the first time but now you know that. Bradford White uses an anode built into the outlet nipple. You might be able to add one of those if you can get the dielectric nipple out.

 

[burtshaver2021]

I’m sure there’s an easier way but only thing that’s coming to mind is, weld a bolt or a nut to it. Then go at with an impact, little bit each way till it comes. Can you safely heat up the area around the threads? If so it may come if you can expand the steel around it a hair

 

[bigJake]

As mentioned, I have tried an impact driver with a 6 point 1 1/16", but that was after I had already partially rounded the bolt with a 12 point. Apparently the steel is pretty soft cause the 6 point just rounded it more since it didn't fit on perfectly since it was already partially rounded by the 12 point. Theses anodes really "weld' themselves in place when they corrode and take a tremendous amout of torque to break them free. I did remove one some years back just out of curiosity, from a tank that started to leak and I replaced. There was literally nothing left of the anode but I think I got that off with a pipe wrench and a 4' pipe, but this one is recessed below the top of the tank so can only be accessed with a socket. I posted on a plumbing forum and a guy suggested trying a 26mm 6 point with a impact drive. My sockets that size are all 12 point so I ordrered a 26mm 6 point to try.. Welding on a couple nuts to get it above the surface of the tank was my first thought but I don't have a welder. That's why I was wonderifg if you guys thought JB Weld would work (if the 26 mm does not fit securely enough) given the amount of torque required to break it free or would the JB Weld just break? I don't know if I can apply heat to the bolt without damaging the glass lining of the tank si I'm trying to steer clear of that option. So I guess my plan right now is try the 26mm when it arrives. If that fails, try JB Weld. If that fails I guess I'll just leave it as it and let nature take it's course as I don;t want to do anything that will cause damage to the tank that results in me having to replace it even sooner.

 

[burtshaver2021]

I wonder if there’s enough room to saw or punch a little groove up the side of the bolt head and then use a screwdriver Perpendicular and pound as hard as you can without breaking anything

 

[BrianMoore]

Let's just estimate the torque at 150 ft-lb. It is probably more. So the edge of the 1 1/16th hex is .53 inches from the center of rotation. Convert ft-lb to in-lb then divide by the moment are to get the force. (150X12) /.53 = 3400 LB of force at the edge of the hex if you are tapping just one side. I'll bet the screwdriver will just sink into the hex and nothing will budge. One thing that's worked for me a couple times is to smear valve grinding compound on the tool to get the tool to not slip. Mostly I've used it on phillips heads, allens and torks. It may not work here but it wouldn't hurt to get a little extra traction on the socket.

I have a 24 year old water heater and I have changed the anode several times. Plumbers may say it doesn't matter but my experience is that it does.

 

[burtshaver2021]

Let's just estimate the torque at 150 ft-lb. It is probably more. So the edge of the 1 1/16th hex is .53 inches from the center of rotation. Convert ft-lb to in-lb then divide by the moment are to get the force. (150X12) /.53 = 3400 LB of force at the edge of the hex if you are tapping just one side. I'll bet the screwdriver will just sink into the hex and nothing will budge. One thing that's worked for me a couple times is to smear valve grinding compound on the tool to get the tool to not slip. Mostly I've used it on phillips heads, allens and torks. It may not work here but it wouldn't hurt to get a little extra traction on the socket.

I have a 24 year old water heater and I have changed the anode several times. Plumbers may say it doesn't matter but my experience is that it does.

I just finished putting a strut on one of our cars, the one bolt was torqued to 119 ft. Pounds. That was a fair bit of force I had to exert at the end of a 16” torque wrench so I would say 150 may be a little high, maybe 110 pounds to get it off which if the metal is soft Its not going to handle that

 

[burtshaver2021]

I wonder if spraying it with some vinegar every once in awhile would help?

 

[bigJake]

Let's just estimate the torque at 150 ft-lb. It is probably more. So the edge of the 1 1/16th hex is .53 inches from the center of rotation. Convert ft-lb to in-lb then divide by the moment are to get the force. (150X12) /.53 = 3400 LB of force at the edge of the hex if you are tapping just one side. I'll bet the screwdriver will just sink into the hex and nothing will budge. One thing that's worked for me a couple times is to smear valve grinding compound on the tool to get the tool to not slip. Mostly I've used it on phillips heads, allens and torks. It may not work here but it wouldn't hurt to get a little extra traction on the socket.

I have a 24 year old water heater and I have changed the anode several times. Plumbers may say it doesn't matter but my experience is that it does.

I was told the only difference between a tank with a 5 yr warranty and a tack with a 10 year warranty is 1 anode vs 2. So I'm pretty sure that replacing the anode as needed will make the tank last a long time. I think plumbers say not to change them cause they want to cahrge you $1,000 to replace the water tank.

 

[bigJake]

well, the 26mm socket arrived today and it won't fit on the bolt so I guess the next step would be trying JB Weld to attach a new nut to the top. I don't have much experience with JB Weld putty ( I used it to seal the pin holes in the welch plugs in my exhaust pipes on the skis). Any guess if the putty would work or would the 2 part gel work better?

 

[Darrellnbay]

I would try CREAP. First spray a couple times, let it creap in.
Then use an oscillating tool to cut a deep straight line for your biggest flat screwdriver or fit a solid pice of steel into the slot to help turn the bolt head. If you get a good fit, you could use a torch to solider it.
Or use the oscillating tool to trim out each side of the bolt to fit a better socket size. .
Either way sounds like your stuck.

 

[Grim]

If you have a welder at this point welding a grade 8 or higher nut on it may be the best bet.

My old school method. heat up the bolt, if you can. After it is mostly cool, use some silicone and form a ring around the bolt that will hold a little bit of liquid. Pour some penetrant in the circle until full. let it set until gone or about a day. Get a socket that is slightly smaller and hammer it on. Use an impact and try and remove the bolt. I've seen people use a closed end wrench with a cheater bar for torque. Use safety glasses and gloves, watch the socket and make sure it doesn't fail on you. The other thing you could do is instead of a socket find a good sturdy common tip, preferably air tool quality , like what comes in an impact driver set. Get a grinding disk and make a cut in bolt, go as deep as you need for the bit to fit tightly without compromising the bolt head integrity. Make sure it matches good with the bit. use the impact driver and try and get it loose.

 

[BrianMoore]

Since you are dealing with a 3/4 pipe thread, I doubt penetrating fluid will creep in when water can'tcreep out. Still I'd try it. JB Weld has tensile strength around 5KSI. 1010 steel has 45KSI yield strength. You need 9 times the area of JB Weld to get it to the equivalent area of steel. I measured an old anode that passivated on me. Hex is .2 tall. My 6 point socket has a .09 chamfer. The chamfer reduces the bearing area on the flats on the anode by about half. What I learned working on mountain bike forks with even thinner hexs is to grind off the socket chamfer or you will never get the fork caps off. You can see in that third socket where the chamfer would have reduced the bearing area by half.

 

[Grim]

Since you are dealing with a 3/4 pipe thread, I doubt penetrating fluid will creep in when water can'tcreep out. Still I'd try it. JB Weld has tensile strength around 5KSI. 1010 steel has 45KSI yield strength. You need 9 times the area of JB Weld to get it to the equivalent area of steel. I measured an old anode that passivated on me. Hex is .2 tall. My 6 point socket has a .09 chamfer. The chamfer reduces the bearing area on the flats on the anode by about half. What I learned working on mountain bike forks with even thinner hexs is to grind off the socket chamfer or you will never get the fork caps off. You can see in that third socket where the chamfer would have reduced the bearing area by half.

You're right, it probably wont sink into pipe threads.